1 00:00:24,830 --> 00:00:18,950 [Music] 2 00:00:28,929 --> 00:00:24,840 you're in the para cast the gold 3 00:00:34,250 --> 00:00:28,939 standard of paranormal radio now here's 4 00:00:36,860 --> 00:00:34,260 gene Steinberg this we got the power 5 00:00:40,549 --> 00:00:36,870 cast Chris O'Brien has decided to take a 6 00:00:43,340 --> 00:00:40,559 few holiday days off now we don't give 7 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:43,350 him paid vacations but we decided that 8 00:00:48,110 --> 00:00:45,930 he's done such a great job and the 9 00:00:50,990 --> 00:00:48,120 forums on the show he's got us some 10 00:00:53,299 --> 00:00:51,000 wonderful guests he deserves at least 11 00:00:56,810 --> 00:00:53,309 one weekend off instead I'm going to 12 00:00:59,600 --> 00:00:56,820 have a guest on this evening who's one 13 00:01:02,209 --> 00:00:59,610 of my closest friends on this planet and 14 00:01:04,549 --> 00:01:02,219 in other planets and he's also somebody 15 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:04,559 I've known for several decades I've 16 00:01:10,100 --> 00:01:07,290 probably known Allen Greenfield as long 17 00:01:13,279 --> 00:01:10,110 as anyone except for Geneva Hagan and 18 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:13,289 except for Jim Mosely perhaps we all got 19 00:01:18,020 --> 00:01:15,450 acquainted that same year what an 20 00:01:20,420 --> 00:01:18,030 interesting year that was and shortly 21 00:01:23,660 --> 00:01:20,430 thereafter I became acquainted with Tim 22 00:01:26,690 --> 00:01:23,670 Buckley so it was quite a variety of 23 00:01:30,230 --> 00:01:26,700 stuff but we go back to look at the 24 00:01:32,449 --> 00:01:30,240 rather extensive studies in which Allen 25 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:32,459 Greenville is engaged and we start with 26 00:01:37,910 --> 00:01:35,130 our interest in the UFO field and if you 27 00:01:40,790 --> 00:01:37,920 haven't heard Allen before I think it's 28 00:01:43,820 --> 00:01:40,800 important that we mentioned this famous 29 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:43,830 little get-together we had this was when 30 00:01:47,870 --> 00:01:45,810 we were teenagers and Allen would come 31 00:01:50,779 --> 00:01:47,880 from Atlanta to New York City and 32 00:01:53,089 --> 00:01:50,789 instead of going outside and getting 33 00:01:54,230 --> 00:01:53,099 completely bombed or loaded and we were 34 00:01:58,359 --> 00:01:54,240 too young for that I think we're 35 00:02:01,639 --> 00:01:58,369 probably 16 or 17 at the time Allen 36 00:02:05,930 --> 00:02:01,649 first time I did the New Year's Eve it 37 00:02:07,850 --> 00:02:05,940 was I was 15 there abouts okay the point 38 00:02:10,100 --> 00:02:07,860 being here is that we just hung out and 39 00:02:12,670 --> 00:02:10,110 we decided to talk about flying saucers 40 00:02:15,949 --> 00:02:12,680 and I recall this particular occasion 41 00:02:18,530 --> 00:02:15,959 you had a copy of a book with you called 42 00:02:21,290 --> 00:02:18,540 the incomplete enchanter kind of a 43 00:02:23,630 --> 00:02:21,300 fantasy story it was about somebody who 44 00:02:26,649 --> 00:02:23,640 goes into another reality where the laws 45 00:02:29,509 --> 00:02:26,659 of magic take precedence am I correct 46 00:02:31,670 --> 00:02:29,519 yep you are indeed that's a book that 47 00:02:34,429 --> 00:02:31,680 actually I've still got that or 48 00:02:37,369 --> 00:02:34,439 I'll copy from the 50s you know a 50 49 00:02:40,339 --> 00:02:37,379 cent paperback but yep that was that was 50 00:02:43,039 --> 00:02:40,349 the premise that I was fiction and in 51 00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:43,049 fact the author's L Sprague de Kamp and 52 00:02:48,649 --> 00:02:46,650 Fletcher Pratt felt the need to put in a 53 00:02:51,229 --> 00:02:48,659 little quotation saying we speak of 54 00:02:52,789 --> 00:02:51,239 things that of course do not exist and 55 00:02:56,979 --> 00:02:52,799 you shouldn't regard them as existing 56 00:03:00,470 --> 00:02:56,989 which I thought was suspiciously 57 00:03:03,410 --> 00:03:00,480 overstating it at the time but that was 58 00:03:05,330 --> 00:03:03,420 very influential for me the later the 59 00:03:07,460 --> 00:03:05,340 complete incenter which is all of the 60 00:03:10,610 --> 00:03:07,470 Harold Shea stories and something I 61 00:03:14,420 --> 00:03:10,620 continued recommend to people it's fun 62 00:03:16,940 --> 00:03:14,430 and it also produces some really really 63 00:03:19,429 --> 00:03:16,950 great ideas and in my youth that was 64 00:03:22,399 --> 00:03:19,439 like one of the first exposures I had to 65 00:03:24,470 --> 00:03:22,409 any kind of alternate worlds theory so 66 00:03:27,020 --> 00:03:24,480 of course I wanted to pass it along to 67 00:03:30,789 --> 00:03:27,030 my friends so they could be equally warp 68 00:03:33,979 --> 00:03:30,799 as I am so you see how it came to be now 69 00:03:37,490 --> 00:03:33,989 coincidentally during the time that our 70 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:37,500 and I were friendly at that point I had 71 00:03:43,490 --> 00:03:40,530 a small UFO magazine I probably gather 72 00:03:45,710 --> 00:03:43,500 he did as well but later on my first 73 00:03:47,689 --> 00:03:45,720 wife Geneva and I founded something 74 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:47,699 called caveat emptor which was a 75 00:03:53,089 --> 00:03:50,250 magazine where we took an alternate 76 00:03:55,819 --> 00:03:53,099 viewpoint about everything we kind of 77 00:03:59,509 --> 00:03:55,829 decided to get rid of the conventional 78 00:04:01,879 --> 00:03:59,519 wisdoms and so we had an article from 79 00:04:04,490 --> 00:04:01,889 Allen where he talks about the theory 80 00:04:06,949 --> 00:04:04,500 that we devised on this New Year's Eve 81 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:06,959 so long ago and it was called the 82 00:04:13,550 --> 00:04:10,530 alternate reality theory of UFOs would 83 00:04:16,610 --> 00:04:13,560 you explain further yeah it actually was 84 00:04:19,819 --> 00:04:16,620 a real game-changer for me when I got 85 00:04:24,020 --> 00:04:19,829 actively involved in ufology my first 86 00:04:25,939 --> 00:04:24,030 exposure was to nycap the National 87 00:04:28,100 --> 00:04:25,949 investigations committee on aerial 88 00:04:31,370 --> 00:04:28,110 phenomena that was very much government 89 00:04:33,890 --> 00:04:31,380 or unit and some suspected government 90 00:04:36,020 --> 00:04:33,900 generated they were on at 15:36 91 00:04:40,879 --> 00:04:36,030 Connecticut Avenue near Dupont Circle 92 00:04:43,129 --> 00:04:40,889 where Klaatu met his end and meditator 93 00:04:45,110 --> 00:04:43,139 earth explained that's everybody this is 94 00:04:46,340 --> 00:04:45,120 peculiar here now there's a 95 00:04:48,020 --> 00:04:46,350 scene in The Day the Earth Stood Still 96 00:04:49,879 --> 00:04:48,030 the original we're not talking about the 97 00:04:51,620 --> 00:04:49,889 remake with canneries which was awful 98 00:04:53,450 --> 00:04:51,630 the original I don't think it was awful 99 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:53,460 but it was not up to the original I will 100 00:04:58,430 --> 00:04:55,410 agree with that let's just say mediocre 101 00:05:00,680 --> 00:04:58,440 okay okay so we have Michael Rennie as 102 00:05:03,350 --> 00:05:00,690 Klaatu being pursued by the authorities 103 00:05:05,780 --> 00:05:03,360 and he shot down near Dupont Circle in 104 00:05:09,110 --> 00:05:05,790 Washington DC this particular location 105 00:05:11,629 --> 00:05:09,120 was probably yards away from where an 106 00:05:13,550 --> 00:05:11,639 eye cap had its headquarters yeah he was 107 00:05:16,070 --> 00:05:13,560 shot down at Dupont Circle and 108 00:05:18,290 --> 00:05:16,080 Connecticut Avenue which is one minute 109 00:05:20,330 --> 00:05:18,300 away from NICAP headquarters of course 110 00:05:22,939 --> 00:05:20,340 now I cap didn't exist at the time the 111 00:05:28,340 --> 00:05:22,949 movie was made I think it was a 1951 or 112 00:05:30,770 --> 00:05:28,350 52 movie one when I had originally seen 113 00:05:32,570 --> 00:05:30,780 the movie my mother was a tremendous 114 00:05:35,659 --> 00:05:32,580 movie buff and she went to the movies 115 00:05:38,150 --> 00:05:35,669 every day and my father not not that 116 00:05:40,340 --> 00:05:38,160 much of a movie buff he was like me in a 117 00:05:43,070 --> 00:05:40,350 agoraphobic he would go he went to see 118 00:05:45,650 --> 00:05:43,080 that apparently in DC and was so 119 00:05:48,500 --> 00:05:45,660 impressed with the documentary flavor of 120 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:48,510 it which loses a little bit now when one 121 00:05:53,930 --> 00:05:51,570 sees it because documentary formats have 122 00:05:56,690 --> 00:05:53,940 changed and the personalities on TV 123 00:05:59,930 --> 00:05:56,700 change but they had drew Pierce and the 124 00:06:02,089 --> 00:05:59,940 other radio TV personalities of that 125 00:06:07,540 --> 00:06:02,099 transitional period actually appearing 126 00:06:11,180 --> 00:06:07,550 in the movie in there as themselves and 127 00:06:13,250 --> 00:06:11,190 scale no doubt well who knows drew 128 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:13,260 Pearson I don't know probably didn't 129 00:06:18,110 --> 00:06:16,530 work for scale but in any case so my 130 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:18,120 mother took me to see it and in her 131 00:06:22,129 --> 00:06:20,010 fashion she never looked at the time 132 00:06:23,570 --> 00:06:22,139 movie started she just walked in and sat 133 00:06:26,089 --> 00:06:23,580 down whenever it was it was about 134 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:26,099 halfway through the movie that I got in 135 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:29,250 there but the first time that I saw it 136 00:06:37,060 --> 00:06:32,849 and by the time it got around to 137 00:06:40,730 --> 00:06:37,070 Patricia Neal being carried by Gort the 138 00:06:44,210 --> 00:06:40,740 huge and rather fail like robot I made 139 00:06:46,339 --> 00:06:44,220 my mother leaf I was scared to death so 140 00:06:49,550 --> 00:06:46,349 that was my first exposure but there is 141 00:06:52,159 --> 00:06:49,560 a scene before that where Michael Rennie 142 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:52,169 and Patricia Miller as their characters 143 00:06:58,940 --> 00:06:55,650 are riding in a taxi to try to get to 144 00:07:01,070 --> 00:06:58,950 the landed UFO in Washington 145 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:01,080 and he says he's got to escape and if he 146 00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:03,450 doesn't make it to go tell Gort the 147 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:04,290 famous line 148 00:07:10,850 --> 00:07:07,890 Klaatu Barada nikto which he has some 149 00:07:12,380 --> 00:07:10,860 trouble doing when she gets to see court 150 00:07:14,180 --> 00:07:12,390 but in any case he gets out of the cab 151 00:07:16,100 --> 00:07:14,190 but there are cops and national 152 00:07:18,020 --> 00:07:16,110 guardsmen and other people chasing him 153 00:07:19,850 --> 00:07:18,030 so it's right at the corner and they 154 00:07:21,740 --> 00:07:19,860 make a point of it saying it in the 155 00:07:24,890 --> 00:07:21,750 movie at the corner of Dupont Circle and 156 00:07:26,870 --> 00:07:24,900 Connecticut Avenue and sure enough he 157 00:07:31,130 --> 00:07:26,880 gets out and is shot down right there 158 00:07:33,710 --> 00:07:31,140 and and and in effect dies although he's 159 00:07:36,620 --> 00:07:33,720 later brought back to life by the robot 160 00:07:41,450 --> 00:07:36,630 but in any case when we went to knock 161 00:07:43,700 --> 00:07:41,460 caps office years later actually your 162 00:07:45,410 --> 00:07:43,710 friend Marty Salkin and I were detained 163 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:45,420 by the police at 6 o'clock in the 164 00:07:50,500 --> 00:07:47,850 morning at that same corner many years 165 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:50,510 later when we were in Washington to give 166 00:07:58,130 --> 00:07:54,690 NICAP a a hard time or whatever we were 167 00:08:01,670 --> 00:07:58,140 there for what's interesting here is the 168 00:08:04,150 --> 00:08:01,680 day before Marty saw kind you and there 169 00:08:07,700 --> 00:08:04,160 was one other person with us right 170 00:08:09,740 --> 00:08:07,710 anything was Rick Hilbert with us I'm 171 00:08:16,580 --> 00:08:09,750 trying to think yeah I think so yes no 172 00:08:18,670 --> 00:08:16,590 no wasn't Rick Rettig no it's not ok it 173 00:08:21,020 --> 00:08:18,680 doesn't matter Marty saw kind by the way 174 00:08:23,330 --> 00:08:21,030 we grew out of touch a couple of years 175 00:08:25,430 --> 00:08:23,340 later I have no idea what happened to 176 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:25,440 him I haven't seen him maybe he was 177 00:08:30,050 --> 00:08:28,170 taken aboard a UFO the day before we had 178 00:08:33,020 --> 00:08:30,060 a fairly pleasant visit with major 179 00:08:35,630 --> 00:08:33,030 Keyhoe the director of nycap at a 180 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:35,640 restaurant or something in Luray 181 00:08:40,580 --> 00:08:38,010 Virginia near the Luray Caverns and 182 00:08:43,850 --> 00:08:40,590 there's no truth to the rumor that major 183 00:08:46,010 --> 00:08:43,860 Keyhoe lived in there Luray Caverns no 184 00:08:50,260 --> 00:08:46,020 but he lived near them and he was very 185 00:08:52,610 --> 00:08:50,270 pleasant to us and treated us with a 186 00:08:55,100 --> 00:08:52,620 considerable respect and we were always 187 00:09:00,080 --> 00:08:55,110 were Kilberg I remember because Rick is 188 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:00,090 and was as far as I know a big Pro 189 00:09:06,890 --> 00:09:04,370 military person so he was very very 190 00:09:11,300 --> 00:09:06,900 respectful of a retired Marine Corps 191 00:09:12,560 --> 00:09:11,310 officer also matrix retirement was under 192 00:09:15,260 --> 00:09:12,570 less than 193 00:09:17,060 --> 00:09:15,270 optimal circumstances you know I want to 194 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:17,070 ask you that I want to ask you that but 195 00:09:22,100 --> 00:09:19,650 we have to do 11 more segments of the 196 00:09:24,890 --> 00:09:22,110 show before we get to it all right so 197 00:09:28,730 --> 00:09:24,900 let's make a cliffhanger of this what 198 00:09:30,260 --> 00:09:28,740 about the departure of matric hijo from 199 00:09:32,870 --> 00:09:30,270 the Marines which occurred I think in 200 00:09:35,780 --> 00:09:32,880 the 1920s I mean we're talking about the 201 00:09:38,390 --> 00:09:35,790 1960s when this occurred but major 202 00:09:39,860 --> 00:09:38,400 Keyhoe that was it he was a US Marine 203 00:09:43,490 --> 00:09:39,870 Corps major retired 204 00:09:46,430 --> 00:09:43,500 we have Alan Greenfield my old and dear 205 00:09:48,410 --> 00:09:46,440 friend and an expert on UFOs in the 206 00:09:58,569 --> 00:09:48,420 occult a lot more to come on the para 207 00:10:03,350 --> 00:10:01,069 don't complain about your cable bill 208 00:10:03,949 --> 00:10:03,360 going up and up and up do something 209 00:10:05,929 --> 00:10:03,959 about it 210 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:05,939 grab a pencil and jot down this special 211 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:09,569 number 1 877 feet 0 for my TV the more 212 00:10:14,809 --> 00:10:11,730 cable TV rates go up the better digital 213 00:10:16,340 --> 00:10:14,819 satellite TV looks so disabled the cable 214 00:10:19,249 --> 00:10:16,350 and get more of your favorite channels 215 00:10:21,230 --> 00:10:19,259 in 100% digital quality for less money 216 00:10:23,540 --> 00:10:21,240 call one eight seven seven eight zero 217 00:10:25,970 --> 00:10:23,550 for my TV right now to sign up for 218 00:10:27,949 --> 00:10:25,980 packages starting as low as $19.99 and 219 00:10:30,079 --> 00:10:27,959 up to four rooms and there's no 220 00:10:33,439 --> 00:10:30,089 equipment to buy that includes your free 221 00:10:35,540 --> 00:10:33,449 HD TV upgrade your free DVR upgrade and 222 00:10:37,639 --> 00:10:35,550 your free professional installation and 223 00:10:39,379 --> 00:10:37,649 the best part the pristine digital 224 00:10:42,050 --> 00:10:39,389 picture and sound call one eight seven 225 00:10:42,949 --> 00:10:42,060 seven eight zero for my TV so what are 226 00:10:44,689 --> 00:10:42,959 you waiting for 227 00:10:46,759 --> 00:10:44,699 pull out your major credit or debit card 228 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:46,769 call twenty seven seven eight zero for 229 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:49,050 my TV one eighty seven seven eight zero 230 00:10:53,869 --> 00:10:51,930 for my TV disable the cable cut costs 231 00:10:56,629 --> 00:10:53,879 and get more call twenty seven seventeen 232 00:11:00,410 --> 00:10:56,639 zero for my TV one eight seven seven 233 00:11:02,059 --> 00:11:00,420 eight zero for my TV gold isn't for you 234 00:11:03,889 --> 00:11:02,069 today Anderson president of Midas 235 00:11:05,809 --> 00:11:03,899 resources one of the world's premier 236 00:11:06,710 --> 00:11:05,819 gold and precious metal investing firms 237 00:11:08,329 --> 00:11:06,720 I get it 238 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:08,339 you wouldn't buy gold if you believed 239 00:11:12,079 --> 00:11:10,050 that the government is doing a great job 240 00:11:14,059 --> 00:11:12,089 that the Fed will stop handing out 241 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:14,069 trillions of dollars like bail out candy 242 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:15,930 that Social Security would be there for 243 00:11:19,699 --> 00:11:17,610 you that's not what's happening 244 00:11:21,740 --> 00:11:19,709 you might even pass on gold if the 245 00:11:23,929 --> 00:11:21,750 stimulus package wouldn't fuel inflation 246 00:11:25,850 --> 00:11:23,939 or that the dollar wouldn't lose value 247 00:11:28,309 --> 00:11:25,860 or that your retirement would be secured 248 00:11:30,259 --> 00:11:28,319 if all looks rosy to you then now is not 249 00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:30,269 the time to buy gold for the realists 250 00:11:33,949 --> 00:11:31,680 that have never been more sobering 251 00:11:37,490 --> 00:11:33,959 reasons to diversify with goal since 252 00:11:39,170 --> 00:11:37,500 2001 the US Dollar Index has tanked 30% 253 00:11:41,210 --> 00:11:39,180 while gold has risen three 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00:13:48,670 seven eight eight eight seven one two 311 00:13:53,490 --> 00:13:51,610 six or go to garlic health products com 312 00:13:55,860 --> 00:13:53,500 that's one eight seven seven eight eight 313 00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:55,870 eight seven one two six or go to garlic 314 00:14:03,270 --> 00:13:58,210 health products calm for your ally see 315 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:03,280 today we'd like to hear from you if you 316 00:14:06,199 --> 00:14:04,930 have a comment or question about the 317 00:14:14,869 --> 00:14:06,209 para cast 318 00:14:18,220 --> 00:14:14,879 don't forget to visit our famous para 319 00:14:23,119 --> 00:14:18,230 cast community forums at forum dot the 320 00:14:26,329 --> 00:14:23,129 podcast.com on the para cast with Jean 321 00:14:27,079 --> 00:14:26,339 Steinberg Chris O'Brien is taking the 322 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:27,089 night off 323 00:14:32,090 --> 00:14:29,730 alan greenfield joins us and he 324 00:14:35,359 --> 00:14:32,100 mentioned very briefly in the first 325 00:14:38,689 --> 00:14:35,369 segment that matric he hos departure 326 00:14:41,780 --> 00:14:38,699 from the marine corps was not on the 327 00:14:46,359 --> 00:14:41,790 best of terms maybe well you know he did 328 00:14:49,249 --> 00:14:46,369 continue to use the title us MC ret 329 00:14:53,119 --> 00:14:49,259 United States Marine Corps retired and 330 00:14:55,369 --> 00:14:53,129 for a middle Achille on officer who had 331 00:14:57,590 --> 00:14:55,379 was not even serving during World War 332 00:14:59,809 --> 00:14:57,600 two although he did write a relatively 333 00:15:02,809 --> 00:14:59,819 prophetic book about World War two 334 00:15:05,660 --> 00:15:02,819 before the war started called M Day that 335 00:15:09,499 --> 00:15:05,670 was unusual I mean he wasn't an admiral 336 00:15:12,019 --> 00:15:09,509 or a senior officer but I do not know 337 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:12,029 this for an absolute fact but I've heard 338 00:15:16,999 --> 00:15:14,730 consistently over the years that he left 339 00:15:21,139 --> 00:15:17,009 the Marine Corps I believe it was in the 340 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:21,149 1930s on a section 8 now section 8 isn't 341 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:23,850 like for poor folks like me getting an 342 00:15:29,539 --> 00:15:26,610 apartment for really really really 343 00:15:33,049 --> 00:15:29,549 really really really low price it meant 344 00:15:35,629 --> 00:15:33,059 that you had emotional problems making 345 00:15:36,859 --> 00:15:35,639 you unfit for continued service so as 346 00:15:39,439 --> 00:15:36,869 far as I know it's an honorable 347 00:15:42,739 --> 00:15:39,449 discharge but it's it's one under 348 00:15:45,199 --> 00:15:42,749 circumstances of mental duress he 349 00:15:47,299 --> 00:15:45,209 nevertheless did hold on obviously to 350 00:15:49,629 --> 00:15:47,309 his classmates at the Naval Academy and 351 00:15:53,119 --> 00:15:49,639 he was in Annapolis graduate because 352 00:15:55,660 --> 00:15:53,129 when he took over not cap which may or 353 00:15:58,819 --> 00:15:55,670 may not have been a hostile takeover in 354 00:16:01,519 --> 00:15:58,829 1957-58 whenever shortly after it was 355 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:01,529 formed by Townsend Brown he brought in 356 00:16:07,189 --> 00:16:04,970 all of these fairly heavy hitter 357 00:16:10,249 --> 00:16:07,199 ex-military people that had been 358 00:16:12,679 --> 00:16:10,259 classmates that the at the Naval Academy 359 00:16:16,849 --> 00:16:12,689 and including Rear Admiral Helen Kotter 360 00:16:22,129 --> 00:16:16,859 who interestingly enough was the retired 361 00:16:25,639 --> 00:16:22,139 first director of what became the CIA 362 00:16:27,739 --> 00:16:25,649 which by the way later actually before 363 00:16:32,859 --> 00:16:27,749 that before he was on the board of nycap 364 00:16:36,019 --> 00:16:32,869 the CIA had decided to disrupt domestic 365 00:16:39,379 --> 00:16:36,029 ufology civilian investigation as it 366 00:16:44,479 --> 00:16:39,389 might interfere with national security 367 00:16:46,159 --> 00:16:44,489 so NICAP is a story unto itself doesn't 368 00:16:48,619 --> 00:16:46,169 necessarily have anything to do with the 369 00:16:52,069 --> 00:16:48,629 I believe there's a current organization 370 00:16:55,849 --> 00:16:52,079 that has some loose net continuity with 371 00:16:59,419 --> 00:16:55,859 there's a gap of many years with that 372 00:17:02,889 --> 00:16:59,429 nycap at that the major Keyhoe Richard 373 00:17:06,049 --> 00:17:02,899 Hall my cap was definitely an 374 00:17:10,100 --> 00:17:06,059 organization that had far too many ties 375 00:17:14,449 --> 00:17:10,110 to the military and indeed kind of sort 376 00:17:16,039 --> 00:17:14,459 of encouraged that identification I mean 377 00:17:18,860 --> 00:17:16,049 they had an address on Connecticut 378 00:17:21,519 --> 00:17:18,870 Avenue in DC they had a very official 379 00:17:25,100 --> 00:17:21,529 sounding name had very official looking 380 00:17:27,949 --> 00:17:25,110 letterhead and all of these titled 381 00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:27,959 military people on their board of course 382 00:17:35,090 --> 00:17:30,510 their main focus was on ending 383 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:35,100 government censorship of UFOs which kind 384 00:17:41,810 --> 00:17:39,450 of redirected I almost said misdirected 385 00:17:44,180 --> 00:17:41,820 but that might do okay with the 386 00:17:47,779 --> 00:17:44,190 redirected or misdirected but I guess 387 00:17:49,940 --> 00:17:47,789 this would be on the surface people on 388 00:17:53,180 --> 00:17:49,950 the inside or used to be on the inside 389 00:17:56,149 --> 00:17:53,190 trying to from the outside get the 390 00:17:58,940 --> 00:17:56,159 authorities to change their ways their 391 00:18:03,889 --> 00:17:58,950 perceived ways yeah the the perceived 392 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:03,899 secrecy and the perceived negative 393 00:18:09,019 --> 00:18:06,450 attitude towards the UFO phenomenon 394 00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:09,029 actually I think they exaggerated that a 395 00:18:14,090 --> 00:18:11,760 lot I've been prone to say for many 396 00:18:20,869 --> 00:18:14,100 years meaning that no arrogance at all 397 00:18:23,090 --> 00:18:20,879 but perhaps some some criticism of such 398 00:18:25,549 --> 00:18:23,100 military projects as there have been to 399 00:18:28,159 --> 00:18:25,559 look into UFOs I know far about more 400 00:18:29,590 --> 00:18:28,169 about UFOs and so do you and so do a lot 401 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:29,600 of your listeners then 402 00:18:34,090 --> 00:18:32,210 then the airforce ever knew and that's a 403 00:18:37,210 --> 00:18:34,100 a mistake to think that this was a 404 00:18:41,350 --> 00:18:37,220 high-level project for one brief moment 405 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:41,360 it was turned over to a university of 406 00:18:46,779 --> 00:18:43,730 the University of Colorado under dr. 407 00:18:51,789 --> 00:18:46,789 Condon who also had a very strange 408 00:18:53,620 --> 00:18:51,799 history but nevertheless for the most 409 00:18:55,930 --> 00:18:53,630 part it was an office with three people 410 00:18:59,380 --> 00:18:55,940 in it that would you know take down UFO 411 00:19:01,360 --> 00:18:59,390 reports and occasionally send somebody 412 00:19:03,100 --> 00:19:01,370 out to investigate something on a very 413 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:03,110 cursory level I believe they knew 414 00:19:09,340 --> 00:19:06,890 nothing they had a lot of raw reports 415 00:19:11,470 --> 00:19:09,350 but no more than these days you can get 416 00:19:13,690 --> 00:19:11,480 on the Internet would you regard it 417 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:13,700 maybe as a public relations operation 418 00:19:18,669 --> 00:19:16,730 then satisfy the populace say hey look 419 00:19:20,470 --> 00:19:18,679 we're investigating these things we're 420 00:19:23,380 --> 00:19:20,480 taking it seriously except maybe for 421 00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:23,390 Captain Edward ruppelt because he seemed 422 00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:25,370 to have taken it seriously until he 423 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:27,710 wrote a revision to his book report on 424 00:19:32,980 --> 00:19:29,570 unidentified flying objects where he 425 00:19:35,890 --> 00:19:32,990 said no I don't believe it well he was 426 00:19:38,350 --> 00:19:35,900 separated from the project for several 427 00:19:42,730 --> 00:19:38,360 years when he wrote his revised version 428 00:19:45,490 --> 00:19:42,740 and he died he died young shortly 429 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:45,500 thereafter so we really don't know the 430 00:19:50,820 --> 00:19:47,450 story on those last three chapters 431 00:19:55,779 --> 00:19:50,830 they're totally at variance with the 432 00:20:00,520 --> 00:19:55,789 with the earlier version of the of the 433 00:20:02,529 --> 00:20:00,530 report on UFOs which is a good book and 434 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:02,539 I think one of the first good books on 435 00:20:08,409 --> 00:20:05,090 the subject the last three chapters are 436 00:20:11,070 --> 00:20:08,419 any are short they're a quick debunk and 437 00:20:15,010 --> 00:20:11,080 they're based on very faulty information 438 00:20:16,690 --> 00:20:15,020 I a key host said that he had been 439 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:16,700 pressured and that had caused his death 440 00:20:22,210 --> 00:20:19,970 but there's no way for me to know one 441 00:20:24,399 --> 00:20:22,220 way or the other on that except that I 442 00:20:27,039 --> 00:20:24,409 rather doubt that I think that it was 443 00:20:31,510 --> 00:20:27,049 just an afterthought and maybe he had 444 00:20:36,220 --> 00:20:31,520 gotten a lot of laughter from his fellow 445 00:20:38,710 --> 00:20:36,230 retired officers and decided to simply 446 00:20:40,990 --> 00:20:38,720 take sides on it the the original 447 00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:41,000 conclusion was only time will tell 448 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:43,130 and of course in a certain 449 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:45,410 since that's still true but I don't 450 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:48,170 think the it gives you a little insight 451 00:20:53,020 --> 00:20:50,690 into what the Air Force was doing and it 452 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:53,030 wasn't very much they investigated cases 453 00:20:58,810 --> 00:20:56,450 that made headlines and the cases that 454 00:21:00,400 --> 00:20:58,820 made headlines are not always the ones 455 00:21:04,870 --> 00:21:00,410 that are the most interesting are the 456 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:04,880 most evidential and and the Blue Book 457 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:08,090 files which it's not too much trouble to 458 00:21:15,100 --> 00:21:11,570 get into are just report files as 459 00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:15,110 private UFO investigators even if 460 00:21:22,750 --> 00:21:17,600 they're not group affiliated have a 461 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:22,760 filing cabinet full or a few megabytes 462 00:21:28,870 --> 00:21:25,010 or perhaps a gigabyte or two of 463 00:21:30,820 --> 00:21:28,880 information on UFOs that probably 464 00:21:33,670 --> 00:21:30,830 exceeds any of that that the Air Force 465 00:21:36,460 --> 00:21:33,680 developed in the however long it was 466 00:21:38,950 --> 00:21:36,470 from Project grudge to the end of blue 467 00:21:41,140 --> 00:21:38,960 book and as for a secret project after 468 00:21:43,450 --> 00:21:41,150 blue book not in the Air Force it 469 00:21:46,090 --> 00:21:43,460 doesn't exist hasn't existed well let's 470 00:21:47,950 --> 00:21:46,100 look back at our theorizing because 471 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:47,960 we're kind of framing the UFO field the 472 00:21:52,660 --> 00:21:50,450 conventional wisdom is that if UFOs were 473 00:21:54,460 --> 00:21:52,670 real they were then we used the term 474 00:21:57,010 --> 00:21:54,470 interplanetary because we thought in 475 00:22:00,190 --> 00:21:57,020 terms of planetary systems within our 476 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:00,200 own solar system now of course when we 477 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:03,170 think of UFOs from space its Taos Eddie 478 00:22:08,950 --> 00:22:05,330 it's wherever it's not a star system 479 00:22:11,140 --> 00:22:08,960 okay so we looked at that and then you 480 00:22:12,460 --> 00:22:11,150 look at this book and all came together 481 00:22:14,620 --> 00:22:12,470 no maybe 482 00:22:17,290 --> 00:22:14,630 UFOs are from another place for that 483 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:17,300 place maybe very close to us sort of 484 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:20,690 yeah exactly I mean the when I look back 485 00:22:28,780 --> 00:22:24,050 on that period and I would say I was Pro 486 00:22:33,550 --> 00:22:28,790 II th extra-terrestrial hypothesis until 487 00:22:37,930 --> 00:22:33,560 around 1965 or 66 when I asked myself an 488 00:22:40,540 --> 00:22:37,940 obvious question which is why we'll 489 00:22:41,370 --> 00:22:40,550 answer why after do the break with Allan 490 00:22:47,430 --> 00:22:41,380 Greenfield 491 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:51,129 are you tired of searching for great 492 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00:27:06,710 --> 00:27:03,830 hi this is Don Ecker and you are tuned 591 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:06,720 in to the para cast let me tell you what 592 00:27:12,590 --> 00:27:09,090 you're gonna hear stuff here that you 593 00:27:15,650 --> 00:27:12,600 probably won't hear anywhere else hear 594 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:15,660 that George snoring we have Alan 595 00:27:20,210 --> 00:27:17,730 Greenfield joining us Chris O'Brien is 596 00:27:22,250 --> 00:27:20,220 taking the night off for the holidays 597 00:27:24,590 --> 00:27:22,260 and we hope it has a pleasant evening 598 00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:24,600 we're talking to Alan Greenfield someone 599 00:27:29,110 --> 00:27:27,120 I've known for a number of years a very 600 00:27:33,140 --> 00:27:29,120 close friend and we're talking about our 601 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:33,150 past and how it relates to the UFO field 602 00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:35,010 and I think it's good to bring this up 603 00:27:41,180 --> 00:27:38,880 Alan because of the fact that today most 604 00:27:43,970 --> 00:27:41,190 people who study UFOs are still living 605 00:27:46,460 --> 00:27:43,980 with that 50s mentality they're from 606 00:27:49,430 --> 00:27:46,470 outer space the government has a secret 607 00:27:52,070 --> 00:27:49,440 let's go on with your theorizing well 608 00:27:56,020 --> 00:27:52,080 can I comment on that first I think that 609 00:27:59,150 --> 00:27:56,030 that is true and I think that that is 610 00:28:01,730 --> 00:27:59,160 misdirection in the sense that it may 611 00:28:05,110 --> 00:28:01,740 even be intentional misdirection from 612 00:28:09,950 --> 00:28:05,120 who or what I think is a more complex 613 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:09,960 question because no UFO has ever been 614 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:13,170 seen to go from one planet to another 615 00:28:20,210 --> 00:28:17,250 in fact we have the only UFOs on Mars 616 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:20,220 which was the original presumptive 617 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:25,650 origin of UFOs or our own probes on Mars 618 00:28:29,660 --> 00:28:27,450 which are finding very interesting 619 00:28:32,180 --> 00:28:29,670 information and you mentioned in the 620 00:28:36,050 --> 00:28:32,190 last segment in passing tau ceti well 621 00:28:39,380 --> 00:28:36,060 that was that's a relatively close star 622 00:28:41,450 --> 00:28:39,390 as these things go not in a billion 623 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:41,460 light years away I think it's what nine 624 00:28:47,330 --> 00:28:44,370 ten light years as something that is 625 00:28:50,150 --> 00:28:47,340 beyond our technology today but perhaps 626 00:28:52,270 --> 00:28:50,160 with one or two technological 627 00:28:56,290 --> 00:28:52,280 breakthroughs would not be beyond our 628 00:28:59,990 --> 00:28:56,300 technology they've just discovered and 629 00:29:02,420 --> 00:29:00,000 earth-like planet with somewhat more 630 00:29:08,930 --> 00:29:02,430 mass than the earth but plausibly a 631 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:08,940 place of origin for the of life as we 632 00:29:12,409 --> 00:29:11,130 know it I'm a bit troubled by the life 633 00:29:14,149 --> 00:29:12,419 as we know it 634 00:29:16,489 --> 00:29:14,159 turn a phrase - there's probably a lot 635 00:29:18,139 --> 00:29:16,499 of life as we don't know it but in any 636 00:29:21,499 --> 00:29:18,149 case well they're trying to make it easy 637 00:29:23,779 --> 00:29:21,509 here okay so life as we know it and it's 638 00:29:26,239 --> 00:29:23,789 12 light years away to be precise but 639 00:29:27,950 --> 00:29:26,249 you know when it's 10 light years a 640 00:29:31,220 --> 00:29:27,960 couple of light years extra doesn't 641 00:29:35,779 --> 00:29:31,230 matter no and and and if the universe is 642 00:29:37,940 --> 00:29:35,789 as some some theoreticians would have it 643 00:29:40,340 --> 00:29:37,950 it might not make any difference if it 644 00:29:45,349 --> 00:29:40,350 was ten light years or ten million light 645 00:29:48,019 --> 00:29:45,359 years it depends on the way space-time 646 00:29:50,419 --> 00:29:48,029 is actually constructed and and how it 647 00:29:54,019 --> 00:29:50,429 can or cannot be worked with but the 648 00:29:58,359 --> 00:29:54,029 point is ufos consistently throughout 649 00:30:00,560 --> 00:29:58,369 the history of UFOs have been closely 650 00:30:02,979 --> 00:30:00,570 associated with the earth they'd be 651 00:30:07,129 --> 00:30:02,989 they've been seeing them and their 652 00:30:09,859 --> 00:30:07,139 alleged inhabitants or their beings 653 00:30:14,330 --> 00:30:09,869 associated with them such as the men in 654 00:30:17,090 --> 00:30:14,340 black the the little almost never green 655 00:30:21,909 --> 00:30:17,100 men the little the little hairy people 656 00:30:25,190 --> 00:30:21,919 whatever any of any of these greys 657 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:25,200 reptilians they're always seen on the 658 00:30:32,149 --> 00:30:29,850 earth or just above the earth so why I 659 00:30:35,149 --> 00:30:32,159 ask myself would we leap to the 660 00:30:39,139 --> 00:30:35,159 conclusion that they come from somewhere 661 00:30:44,570 --> 00:30:39,149 else in space why not somewhere else in 662 00:30:46,970 --> 00:30:44,580 a time or B dimensionality and part of 663 00:30:50,359 --> 00:30:46,980 that was formed by the aforementioned 664 00:30:53,479 --> 00:30:50,369 book the the the incomplete enchanter 665 00:30:56,570 --> 00:30:53,489 written for fun but postulating the 666 00:31:00,560 --> 00:30:56,580 existence of alternate realities at the 667 00:31:04,009 --> 00:31:00,570 time the idea was possible within 668 00:31:09,460 --> 00:31:04,019 certain aspects of theoretical physics 669 00:31:12,259 --> 00:31:09,470 also in terms of certain mathematical 670 00:31:14,450 --> 00:31:12,269 theories that had existed for a very 671 00:31:17,930 --> 00:31:14,460 long time even predating theoretical 672 00:31:19,729 --> 00:31:17,940 physics witness Abbot's Edwin Abbott's 673 00:31:22,519 --> 00:31:19,739 famous book flatland which by the way 674 00:31:26,090 --> 00:31:22,529 you can get for free in a PDF format on 675 00:31:28,909 --> 00:31:26,100 the internet from many different sources 676 00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:28,919 and that goes back to the 1890s I 677 00:31:33,649 --> 00:31:30,720 believe but sir are you somewhere right 678 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:33,659 around then long before relativity or 679 00:31:41,230 --> 00:31:38,450 theoretical physics as we now know it 680 00:31:43,820 --> 00:31:41,240 indicating that anyway there are 681 00:31:46,129 --> 00:31:43,830 increasing indications that such 682 00:31:48,379 --> 00:31:46,139 realities actually exist 683 00:31:52,399 --> 00:31:48,389 and by the time we were doing our 684 00:31:55,399 --> 00:31:52,409 get-togethers I didn't have any any of 685 00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:55,409 the materials that we could now bring 686 00:32:02,990 --> 00:31:57,690 forward in support of that sort of idea 687 00:32:08,299 --> 00:32:03,000 of an alternate reality such as the M 688 00:32:15,470 --> 00:32:08,309 brain version of that's BR ane not the 689 00:32:18,649 --> 00:32:15,480 living brain in 1956 but yeah but as in 690 00:32:20,810 --> 00:32:18,659 as in a membrane M brain that is that 691 00:32:23,649 --> 00:32:20,820 the universe consists of all universes 692 00:32:26,690 --> 00:32:23,659 omniverse consists of many different 693 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:26,700 membranes that intersect and intertwine 694 00:32:32,210 --> 00:32:30,090 and maybe no more than while space 695 00:32:35,060 --> 00:32:32,220 probably has no meaning but let's just 696 00:32:37,850 --> 00:32:35,070 say a silly millimeter apart and and and 697 00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:37,860 each one the rules of physics are 698 00:32:42,139 --> 00:32:39,840 different and in each one there may be a 699 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:42,149 consistent internal set of rules of 700 00:32:46,850 --> 00:32:44,490 physics or chaos may rule you there's 701 00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:46,860 there's no way of knowing without going 702 00:32:50,990 --> 00:32:49,289 there and you may have dinosaurs walking 703 00:32:54,230 --> 00:32:51,000 through your room right now in fact 704 00:32:57,340 --> 00:32:54,240 there are our noted physicists like 705 00:33:00,919 --> 00:32:57,350 Michiyo Kaku who say yeah you do but 706 00:33:03,710 --> 00:33:00,929 under ordinary circumstances we are 707 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:03,720 unaware of that the incomplete enchanter 708 00:33:11,139 --> 00:33:08,490 was a fictional method for transporting 709 00:33:13,610 --> 00:33:11,149 oneself from one to the other and I 710 00:33:15,919 --> 00:33:13,620 introduced I guess I introduced you to 711 00:33:20,330 --> 00:33:15,929 the book and and any number of our 712 00:33:23,690 --> 00:33:20,340 friends of that period David Halpern Tim 713 00:33:26,860 --> 00:33:23,700 Beck Lee and the usual gang of idiots as 714 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:26,870 we as we say some took to it right away 715 00:33:31,610 --> 00:33:29,610 some took to their own version the late 716 00:33:38,750 --> 00:33:31,620 Jim Mosely God rest his soul whether 717 00:33:39,700 --> 00:33:38,760 whether he believed and took he had his 718 00:33:41,950 --> 00:33:39,710 own version called 719 00:33:44,710 --> 00:33:41,960 three and a half D theory which like 720 00:33:50,380 --> 00:33:44,720 anything from Jim had a sort of amusing 721 00:33:53,350 --> 00:33:50,390 meaning meaning as well as a serious 722 00:33:57,370 --> 00:33:53,360 meaning but essentially the notion that 723 00:34:02,200 --> 00:33:57,380 there may be something about UFOs and 724 00:34:04,419 --> 00:34:02,210 adjacent paranormal phenomena that pop 725 00:34:08,310 --> 00:34:04,429 in and out of our reality and may also 726 00:34:11,349 --> 00:34:08,320 be an explanation for why a lot of 727 00:34:14,339 --> 00:34:11,359 abductees never come back 728 00:34:18,780 --> 00:34:14,349 we do have an enormous number of people 729 00:34:22,210 --> 00:34:18,790 who simply disappear over the years and 730 00:34:24,430 --> 00:34:22,220 that seems to be either ignored or taken 731 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:24,440 for granted but maybe they walk into 732 00:34:29,020 --> 00:34:26,330 other where there are cases of people 733 00:34:31,089 --> 00:34:29,030 who have been seen did you know once the 734 00:34:34,899 --> 00:34:31,099 other question would be then what about 735 00:34:37,089 --> 00:34:34,909 people who walk from there to here well 736 00:34:43,060 --> 00:34:37,099 that seems to happen also there are 737 00:34:46,510 --> 00:34:43,070 people who come with no memory no no and 738 00:34:50,740 --> 00:34:46,520 they are people that's significant to I 739 00:34:53,589 --> 00:34:50,750 suppose throughout history and if any of 740 00:34:55,419 --> 00:34:53,599 this theorizing is correct it wouldn't 741 00:34:58,390 --> 00:34:55,429 be new it would be something that has 742 00:35:04,359 --> 00:34:58,400 always been true we may have wandered 743 00:35:07,270 --> 00:35:04,369 here as a as a type of being from one of 744 00:35:11,260 --> 00:35:07,280 these other dimensions and interbred 745 00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:11,270 with primitive but compatible beings of 746 00:35:16,510 --> 00:35:13,250 the same general sort because they come 747 00:35:18,190 --> 00:35:16,520 from an adjacent reality and become who 748 00:35:20,609 --> 00:35:18,200 we are which would explain the 749 00:35:23,109 --> 00:35:20,619 disappearance of some of the 750 00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:23,119 alternatives that have been pondered a 751 00:35:27,609 --> 00:35:25,609 lot did we kill off the Neanderthals or 752 00:35:35,109 --> 00:35:27,619 did we interbreed with them or they die 753 00:35:37,359 --> 00:35:35,119 out or what about the the cro-magnon who 754 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:37,369 seemed to have had larger brain pans 755 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:42,330 than Homo sapiens 756 00:35:48,860 --> 00:35:45,810 why they didn't become the the dominance 757 00:35:50,750 --> 00:35:48,870 maybe there was some sort of inner 758 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:50,760 breeding I think there's always been 759 00:35:56,750 --> 00:35:54,050 interaction but it's perceived as 760 00:35:59,150 --> 00:35:56,760 religious miracles and psychic phenomena 761 00:36:01,190 --> 00:35:59,160 and indeed those those terms would be as 762 00:36:05,570 --> 00:36:01,200 good as any other but I'm trying to look 763 00:36:08,210 --> 00:36:05,580 at what kind of underlying hyper science 764 00:36:10,490 --> 00:36:08,220 might be involved and here we might be 765 00:36:12,620 --> 00:36:10,500 dealing with not one but an infinite 766 00:36:14,270 --> 00:36:12,630 number of alternate realities some of 767 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:14,280 which by the way contain our own 768 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:17,970 duplicates and okay and that's even an 769 00:36:22,070 --> 00:36:19,890 interesting story in itself it's bred 770 00:36:23,510 --> 00:36:22,080 some fascinating science fiction you 771 00:36:26,690 --> 00:36:23,520 know where you meet up with your 772 00:36:28,910 --> 00:36:26,700 alternate even the TV series fringe you 773 00:36:31,220 --> 00:36:28,920 had two different versions of just about 774 00:36:34,010 --> 00:36:31,230 every character or those some survived 775 00:36:36,380 --> 00:36:34,020 in one reality but not in another we're 776 00:36:38,330 --> 00:36:36,390 talking about realities other realities 777 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:38,340 with Allen Greenfield you're in the 778 00:36:51,670 --> 00:36:48,099 [Music] 779 00:36:54,849 --> 00:36:51,680 the GC and radio network providing the 780 00:36:59,680 --> 00:36:54,859 world with hard-hitting talk radio G C 781 00:37:01,719 --> 00:36:59,690 and great talk radio starts here don't 782 00:37:04,029 --> 00:37:01,729 complain about your cable bill going up 783 00:37:06,039 --> 00:37:04,039 and up and up do something about it 784 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:06,049 grab a pencil and jot down this special 785 00:37:11,829 --> 00:37:09,650 number 2077 beat zero for my TV the more 786 00:37:14,890 --> 00:37:11,839 cable TV rates go up the better digital 787 00:37:16,449 --> 00:37:14,900 satellite TV looks so disabled the cable 788 00:37:19,329 --> 00:37:16,459 and get more of your favorite channels 789 00:37:21,309 --> 00:37:19,339 in 100% digital quality for less money 790 00:37:23,650 --> 00:37:21,319 call one eight seven seven eight zero 791 00:37:26,079 --> 00:37:23,660 for my TV right now to sign up for 792 00:37:28,059 --> 00:37:26,089 packages starting as low as $19.99 and 793 00:37:30,190 --> 00:37:28,069 up to four rooms and there's no 794 00:37:33,519 --> 00:37:30,200 equipment to buy that includes your free 795 00:37:35,650 --> 00:37:33,529 HDTV upgrade your free DVR upgrade and 796 00:37:37,749 --> 00:37:35,660 your free professional installation and 797 00:37:39,489 --> 00:37:37,759 the best part the pristine digital 798 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:39,499 picture and sound call 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since nineteen eighty 869 00:40:57,330 --> 00:40:55,670 eight celebrating 25 years in service to 870 00:41:08,500 --> 00:40:57,340 the natural healthcare industry 871 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:12,300 [Music] 872 00:41:16,570 --> 00:41:14,690 we have Allen Greenfield joining us in 873 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:16,580 the para cast this week Chris O'Brien's 874 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:18,890 taking the night off and we're focusing 875 00:41:24,610 --> 00:41:22,130 on an alternative viewpoint alternate 876 00:41:27,370 --> 00:41:24,620 reality theory for UFOs and other 877 00:41:29,740 --> 00:41:27,380 phenomena and we were talking here about 878 00:41:31,780 --> 00:41:29,750 the possibility that in this other 879 00:41:33,820 --> 00:41:31,790 reality or in other realities there is 880 00:41:34,990 --> 00:41:33,830 another Allen Greenfield there's another 881 00:41:36,490 --> 00:41:35,000 Jean Steinberg 882 00:41:40,150 --> 00:41:36,500 heaven forbid there's another Chris 883 00:41:40,630 --> 00:41:40,160 O'Brien there's maybe a Jim Mosely who's 884 00:41:47,130 --> 00:41:40,640 still alive 885 00:41:50,470 --> 00:41:47,140 oh yeah that's the notion is in in brain 886 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:50,480 theory and again that's capital M for 887 00:41:57,790 --> 00:41:52,010 people who want to look it up on the 888 00:41:59,560 --> 00:41:57,800 internet with a dash and B are a in E to 889 00:42:01,380 --> 00:41:59,570 start with the Wikipedia article if you 890 00:42:04,180 --> 00:42:01,390 don't you know if you don't follow 891 00:42:06,850 --> 00:42:04,190 theoretical physics and it pretty well 892 00:42:09,850 --> 00:42:06,860 explains it and just do whatever level 893 00:42:12,220 --> 00:42:09,860 follow-through you care to some people 894 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:12,230 are now saying that some of the 895 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:15,770 experiments being done at the CERN atom 896 00:42:20,350 --> 00:42:17,690 smasher or whatever they're calling it 897 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:20,360 these days with the expense involved in 898 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:23,570 Switzerland throws off the supersymmetry 899 00:42:29,410 --> 00:42:26,930 idea which goes back to square one and 900 00:42:32,230 --> 00:42:29,420 kind of kills all variations of string 901 00:42:36,190 --> 00:42:32,240 theory including in brain theory however 902 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:36,200 I've looked at that and I think that all 903 00:42:42,220 --> 00:42:38,810 it means is there's yet another piece to 904 00:42:46,540 --> 00:42:42,230 a very very complex puzzle that like 905 00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:46,550 UFOs we may come to an understanding of 906 00:42:52,810 --> 00:42:49,910 what we can understand and what we can't 907 00:42:54,370 --> 00:42:52,820 understand but we may never come to a 908 00:42:57,910 --> 00:42:54,380 resolution 909 00:42:59,800 --> 00:42:57,920 it just isn't like the the Big Bang and 910 00:43:02,020 --> 00:42:59,810 the question of what was it like a 911 00:43:04,690 --> 00:43:02,030 second before the Big Bang it's a non 912 00:43:08,020 --> 00:43:04,700 question and we may we may just have to 913 00:43:10,210 --> 00:43:08,030 reconcile our our curious ape minds to 914 00:43:11,530 --> 00:43:10,220 that after all we just stepped out of 915 00:43:13,780 --> 00:43:11,540 the trees in 916 00:43:16,060 --> 00:43:13,790 in terms of geological time and 917 00:43:18,340 --> 00:43:16,070 biological time for that matter a few 918 00:43:21,310 --> 00:43:18,350 seconds ago and the notion that we we 919 00:43:23,410 --> 00:43:21,320 comprehend or capable of comprehending 920 00:43:27,310 --> 00:43:23,420 everything about the nature of reality 921 00:43:29,410 --> 00:43:27,320 is a the Greeks would call it hubris and 922 00:43:31,750 --> 00:43:29,420 I think that's as good a term as any 923 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:31,760 now at the same time while we were 924 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:33,890 talking about alternate realities John 925 00:43:38,530 --> 00:43:36,170 keel was talking about ultra 926 00:43:40,180 --> 00:43:38,540 terrestrials but they weren't 927 00:43:43,450 --> 00:43:40,190 necessarily beings from another reality 928 00:43:46,660 --> 00:43:43,460 were they I thought he was talking about 929 00:43:49,300 --> 00:43:46,670 pretty much the same thing yes my 930 00:43:53,860 --> 00:43:49,310 opinion first of all the late Jim Mosley 931 00:43:58,210 --> 00:43:53,870 was so anxious to introduce me to this 932 00:44:00,340 --> 00:43:58,220 guy Jim and I spent the great expense of 933 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:00,350 long distance in those days but in those 934 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:03,890 days we were both well-to-do or to put 935 00:44:08,830 --> 00:44:05,930 it more candidly 936 00:44:11,980 --> 00:44:08,840 my father was well-to-do and I was 937 00:44:15,340 --> 00:44:11,990 living at home and Jim was well-to-do we 938 00:44:18,250 --> 00:44:15,350 do by virtue of a trust fund from his 939 00:44:21,310 --> 00:44:18,260 mom well the point being that we both we 940 00:44:23,290 --> 00:44:21,320 both eventually we I thought he was 941 00:44:24,430 --> 00:44:23,300 fabulously wealthy at the time and I 942 00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:24,440 think he thought I was fabulously 943 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:27,250 wealthy as it turned out we we both 944 00:44:32,770 --> 00:44:30,410 started out our adult lives with about 945 00:44:37,290 --> 00:44:32,780 the same amount of money in trust funds 946 00:44:41,290 --> 00:44:37,300 you know and I ran out at 40 and had to 947 00:44:44,290 --> 00:44:41,300 work warehouse work and and other better 948 00:44:49,090 --> 00:44:44,300 things than that but he didn't quite 949 00:44:51,700 --> 00:44:49,100 outlive his wealth which was something 950 00:44:54,130 --> 00:44:51,710 he was afraid of doing that had a lot to 951 00:44:56,140 --> 00:44:54,140 do with his many grandchildren which he 952 00:44:58,990 --> 00:44:56,150 was very conscientious about given that 953 00:45:00,580 --> 00:44:59,000 they had dropped into existence here 954 00:45:04,270 --> 00:45:00,590 there and otherwise but I think this 955 00:45:06,910 --> 00:45:04,280 probably will do the badge of Moseley 956 00:45:09,700 --> 00:45:06,920 thing a year from now okay I don't want 957 00:45:11,770 --> 00:45:09,710 a badger Jim Mosley he meant much to me 958 00:45:15,730 --> 00:45:11,780 but you know I'll criticize him because 959 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:15,740 I think you know sometimes we all there 960 00:45:21,340 --> 00:45:18,610 there are there are all all kinds of 961 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:21,350 interesting and funny Jim Mosley storage 962 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:23,090 is probably too soon to tell because 963 00:45:28,059 --> 00:45:25,130 they're fairly intimate but 964 00:45:30,519 --> 00:45:28,069 all the people involved our dad's so 965 00:45:34,299 --> 00:45:30,529 it's okay to I'm back to John keel and 966 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:34,309 Jim Mosely and you yeah yeah mostly took 967 00:45:40,180 --> 00:45:36,890 to talking for hours on end about how 968 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:40,190 perceptive this guy was at the time I 969 00:45:45,539 --> 00:45:42,410 didn't know him from a sack of salt but 970 00:45:48,220 --> 00:45:45,549 he mentioned a book that he'd written 971 00:45:49,420 --> 00:45:48,230 people say keel had no sense of humor he 972 00:45:51,940 --> 00:45:49,430 had written a book about the Batman 973 00:45:54,519 --> 00:45:51,950 craze which you and I were deeply 974 00:45:56,950 --> 00:45:54,529 involved in if in fact we spent all 975 00:45:59,620 --> 00:45:56,960 night at a theater watching a 1940's 976 00:46:03,490 --> 00:45:59,630 Batman serial one night I remember and 977 00:46:05,859 --> 00:46:03,500 the do you recall that we yes I do and I 978 00:46:07,779 --> 00:46:05,869 thought how bad they were then when they 979 00:46:10,690 --> 00:46:07,789 had the TV show with Adam West and Burt 980 00:46:12,069 --> 00:46:10,700 Ward at the end of each episode you and 981 00:46:12,519 --> 00:46:12,079 I would call each other and talk about 982 00:46:15,130 --> 00:46:12,529 it 983 00:46:15,999 --> 00:46:15,140 yeah well exactly so we had no sense 984 00:46:20,339 --> 00:46:16,009 folks at all 985 00:46:23,559 --> 00:46:20,349 well I'm rather fond of the Republic era 986 00:46:25,690 --> 00:46:23,569 you have to dumb down for it I would 987 00:46:28,539 --> 00:46:25,700 call it popcorn movies not you know I 988 00:46:31,390 --> 00:46:28,549 love movie serials but some were done so 989 00:46:33,220 --> 00:46:31,400 badly they had a couple on Superman and 990 00:46:35,529 --> 00:46:33,230 in both cases there were no flying 991 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:35,539 scenes they simply used a cartoon 992 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:37,450 they were that cheap and then you had 993 00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:40,130 1941 that was another movie we saw the 994 00:46:44,380 --> 00:46:41,599 entire movie I don't know if you were 995 00:46:47,259 --> 00:46:44,390 with me or some other people Captain 996 00:46:51,759 --> 00:46:47,269 Marvel where they had some pretty decent 997 00:46:54,460 --> 00:46:51,769 flying scenes and probably until the 70s 998 00:46:56,740 --> 00:46:54,470 with Superman in the movie Captain 999 00:46:58,630 --> 00:46:56,750 Marvel was probably the best superhero 1000 00:47:01,210 --> 00:46:58,640 movie well I think they were aimed at 1001 00:47:05,049 --> 00:47:01,220 eight-year-olds and I watched some of 1002 00:47:07,900 --> 00:47:05,059 those on TV when I was eight years old 1003 00:47:09,309 --> 00:47:07,910 and they were inspiring for an 1004 00:47:12,670 --> 00:47:09,319 eight-year-old you know and you get 1005 00:47:15,009 --> 00:47:12,680 older what was it that Jules Feiffer 1006 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:15,019 said about comic book spoiled by growing 1007 00:47:21,460 --> 00:47:19,490 up but in any case let me get back to so 1008 00:47:24,430 --> 00:47:21,470 I'm getting interested in this guy keel 1009 00:47:27,579 --> 00:47:24,440 and I Jim tells me that he's doing an 1010 00:47:31,900 --> 00:47:27,589 autograph party for his book on the on 1011 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:31,910 Batman which is a comic satire I've 1012 00:47:37,180 --> 00:47:34,490 never seen the book but I did look him 1013 00:47:38,980 --> 00:47:37,190 up and he had written one of those men's 1014 00:47:41,830 --> 00:47:38,990 magazine type adventure 1015 00:47:43,870 --> 00:47:41,840 books with an occult twist called jaddu 1016 00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:43,880 which is coming out again by the way I 1017 00:47:51,970 --> 00:47:47,930 am informed by Nick Redfern just today 1018 00:47:54,220 --> 00:47:51,980 which is I'm sure quasi fictional but 1019 00:47:56,140 --> 00:47:54,230 also probably involves some of his 1020 00:47:58,090 --> 00:47:56,150 traveling around the world anyway I did 1021 00:48:02,050 --> 00:47:58,100 want to meet this guy in one day years 1022 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:02,060 gym condiment who coming over to my 1023 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:04,010 hotel room at the Hilton which 1024 00:48:09,310 --> 00:48:05,930 overlooked Times Square so I didn't have 1025 00:48:11,650 --> 00:48:09,320 to go down and mingle with the masses to 1026 00:48:15,820 --> 00:48:11,660 watch the ball come down and mingling 1027 00:48:17,770 --> 00:48:15,830 with masses oh no no well I probably 1028 00:48:19,630 --> 00:48:17,780 would have been more fun if I'd done 1029 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:19,640 mingling but that was that was the way I 1030 00:48:24,010 --> 00:48:21,650 thought back then in any case we had 1031 00:48:25,990 --> 00:48:24,020 very good times and there was one one 1032 00:48:28,510 --> 00:48:26,000 year where we went out but anyway I'll 1033 00:48:31,810 --> 00:48:28,520 get to that in a moment major thing is 1034 00:48:35,050 --> 00:48:31,820 he'll impressed the bejesus out of me I 1035 00:48:38,230 --> 00:48:35,060 mean he had this voice and he sounded 1036 00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:38,240 like no matter what he said I'll never 1037 00:48:43,380 --> 00:48:40,730 forget the line where he said and this 1038 00:48:47,380 --> 00:48:43,390 was in a speech that he gave here in 1039 00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:47,390 Atlanta for for the local UFO group 1040 00:49:00,300 --> 00:48:52,730 which I was a mocker marker is Chinese 1041 00:49:04,930 --> 00:49:00,310 for important poison in any case he said 1042 00:49:09,430 --> 00:49:04,940 at the UN the lights went out and at the 1043 00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:09,440 same time a phone booth in Virginia blew 1044 00:49:21,550 --> 00:49:14,210 up and the way qu'il would say that you 1045 00:49:22,690 --> 00:49:21,560 would go oh yeah well what has one got 1046 00:49:24,370 --> 00:49:22,700 to do with the other 1047 00:49:27,910 --> 00:49:24,380 teal couldn't make anything sound 1048 00:49:32,109 --> 00:49:27,920 mysterious I talked to Allen Greenfield 1049 00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:32,119 and he was impressed well he was right 1050 00:49:37,510 --> 00:49:35,210 but he started to use this term which he 1051 00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:37,520 wrote this great big book which wound up 1052 00:49:43,060 --> 00:49:40,130 being four different books because the 1053 00:49:46,090 --> 00:49:43,070 publisher just wouldn't do this huge 1054 00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:46,100 thousand page operation Trojan horse so 1055 00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:48,730 it wound up being three more 1056 00:49:53,100 --> 00:49:51,130 books in that cycle and he threw in the 1057 00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:53,110 Mothman cycle as a separate thing which 1058 00:50:00,630 --> 00:49:55,330 turned out to be his most lucrative and 1059 00:50:03,590 --> 00:50:00,640 best-known if not best work but he used 1060 00:50:05,940 --> 00:50:03,600 the term ultra terrestrial as opposed to 1061 00:50:08,310 --> 00:50:05,950 extraterrestrial and I had extensive 1062 00:50:11,670 --> 00:50:08,320 discussions with him and correspondence 1063 00:50:13,980 --> 00:50:11,680 with him and as far as I can tell he was 1064 00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:13,990 talking about the same thing that valet 1065 00:50:23,660 --> 00:50:20,170 meant by Magana by ultra terrestrial he 1066 00:50:27,450 --> 00:50:23,670 meant and by alternate realities I mean 1067 00:50:29,670 --> 00:50:27,460 you mean Jim Mosley use the term 1068 00:50:34,460 --> 00:50:29,680 three-and-a-half D it just sort of 1069 00:50:38,010 --> 00:50:34,470 reflects our diversity as as not being 1070 00:50:41,310 --> 00:50:38,020 conformist or knee-jerk followers of 1071 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:41,320 anything basically we're talking about a 1072 00:50:48,540 --> 00:50:45,330 universe which consists of more than one 1073 00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:48,550 static reality that moves from past to 1074 00:50:58,470 --> 00:50:53,440 present to future there is the eleven 1075 00:51:00,420 --> 00:50:58,480 other parallel worlds in in brain theory 1076 00:51:01,650 --> 00:51:00,430 and there's also a variation of that 1077 00:51:05,030 --> 00:51:01,660 which is that there are an infinite 1078 00:51:09,770 --> 00:51:05,040 number of worlds depending on each 1079 00:51:12,450 --> 00:51:09,780 decision that each consciousness makes 1080 00:51:13,950 --> 00:51:12,460 consciousness being the basis of reality 1081 00:51:16,860 --> 00:51:13,960 changes things 1082 00:51:19,110 --> 00:51:16,870 in other words mmm I've been married 1083 00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:19,120 four times and you know that's a good 1084 00:51:24,750 --> 00:51:22,000 place to leave this because I don't know 1085 00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:24,760 if I should envy you or pity you pity me 1086 00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:28,090 okay Allan Greenfield joining me you're 1087 00:51:41,180 --> 00:51:38,960 [Music] 1088 00:51:44,610 --> 00:51:41,190 America's number one source for 1089 00:51:49,770 --> 00:51:44,620 independent talk radio for over a decade 1090 00:51:51,540 --> 00:51:49,780 we are the gcn radio network hi this is 1091 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:51,550 Ted Anderson if you'd like to listen to 1092 00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:53,770 GCN programs on the goal I have great 1093 00:51:58,620 --> 00:51:56,410 news g ZN has created a droid and iphone 1094 00:52:00,930 --> 00:51:58,630 application and it's free just as easy 1095 00:52:02,820 --> 00:52:00,940 as going to GC and live.com click on the 1096 00:52:04,230 --> 00:52:02,830 banner and download before you know it 1097 00:52:06,390 --> 00:52:04,240 you'll be listening to your favorite 1098 00:52:09,150 --> 00:52:06,400 hard-hitting GCN shows live or on demand 1099 00:52:11,070 --> 00:52:09,160 right on your droid or iPhone 24/7 and 1100 00:52:12,900 --> 00:52:11,080 on the go so download the droid an 1101 00:52:14,850 --> 00:52:12,910 iPhone app free by clicking on the 1102 00:52:16,860 --> 00:52:14,860 banner at juicy and live.com thanks 1103 00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:16,870 again for listening to GC and live.com 1104 00:52:20,910 --> 00:52:19,210 again that's juicy and live.com hi this 1105 00:52:22,590 --> 00:52:20,920 is Ted Anderson have you ever wondered 1106 00:52:24,450 --> 00:52:22,600 why banks stockbrokers investment 1107 00:52:26,730 --> 00:52:24,460 advisors won't talk about gold IRAs 1108 00:52:28,500 --> 00:52:26,740 they've been available since 1986 yet 1109 00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:28,510 the financial industry won't recognize 1110 00:52:32,310 --> 00:52:30,370 the value of gold for your attire mint 1111 00:52:34,470 --> 00:52:32,320 gold has outperformed paper investments 1112 00:52:47,300 --> 00:52:34,480 yet no word about IRAs if you would like 1113 00:53:33,630 --> 00:53:30,930 806-853-9949 at HP extract com that's 1114 00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:33,640 eight six six two nine five five three 1115 00:53:42,410 --> 00:53:39,730 zero five or HP extract calm body 1116 00:53:44,450 --> 00:53:42,420 actually works this is just 1117 00:53:46,190 --> 00:53:44,460 amazing product even the numbness in my 1118 00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:46,200 hands is completely gone 1119 00:53:56,330 --> 00:53:48,690 heart and body extract for a long and 1120 00:54:04,340 --> 00:54:00,030 welcome back to the para cast the gold 1121 00:54:12,810 --> 00:54:04,350 standard of paranormal radio and now 1122 00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:12,820 here's Jane Steinberg so I stopped alan 1123 00:54:16,620 --> 00:54:15,130 greenfield says he was married four 1124 00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:16,630 times and we're not going to get into 1125 00:54:22,170 --> 00:54:18,910 all the ramifications of that but he's 1126 00:54:25,020 --> 00:54:22,180 here joining me on the para cast and 1127 00:54:28,020 --> 00:54:25,030 we're talking about John keel he had one 1128 00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:28,030 of those voices and the kind of delivery 1129 00:54:33,060 --> 00:54:30,970 where he says something you believe it 1130 00:54:33,720 --> 00:54:33,070 doesn't matter if he's making it up you 1131 00:54:36,770 --> 00:54:33,730 believe him 1132 00:54:41,310 --> 00:54:36,780 in a certain sense he was kind of like 1133 00:54:43,620 --> 00:54:41,320 gray Barker who in a sense was a rival 1134 00:54:46,590 --> 00:54:43,630 of his over the particularly the Mothman 1135 00:54:48,570 --> 00:54:46,600 material but they were both yarn 1136 00:54:51,870 --> 00:54:48,580 spinners and storytellers there's a 1137 00:54:54,990 --> 00:54:51,880 difference between a West Virginia gray 1138 00:54:58,010 --> 00:54:55,000 Barker type yarn spinner and storyteller 1139 00:55:03,540 --> 00:54:58,020 because they are in the true old 1140 00:55:08,660 --> 00:55:03,550 American mythos type of Paul Bunyan sort 1141 00:55:12,410 --> 00:55:08,670 of tradition John keel came out of the 1142 00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:12,420 fantasies of men's magazines of the 1143 00:55:20,580 --> 00:55:17,650 1940s and 50s where my favorite image is 1144 00:55:23,660 --> 00:55:20,590 the man marooned on the island that all 1145 00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:23,670 of the inhabitants were Amazonian women 1146 00:55:29,940 --> 00:55:27,010 lusting after men you know that's the it 1147 00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:29,950 must have been thousands of stories that 1148 00:55:38,970 --> 00:55:34,450 were ver variations on that theme in 1149 00:55:42,390 --> 00:55:38,980 Argosy saga and and other magazines of 1150 00:55:44,130 --> 00:55:42,400 that sort they were not many magazines 1151 00:55:47,610 --> 00:55:44,140 by today's standards but they were 1152 00:55:50,550 --> 00:55:47,620 considered such back then they also had 1153 00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:50,560 some articles on relatively serious 1154 00:55:56,070 --> 00:55:53,530 material qu'il was a bit more of a 1155 00:55:58,410 --> 00:55:56,080 serious writer than than a lot of the 1156 00:56:01,650 --> 00:55:58,420 people that wrote for those magazines I 1157 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:01,660 think I think about it Jim Mosley had a 1158 00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:03,130 thing on treasure hunting in one of 1159 00:56:07,690 --> 00:56:05,290 those magazines way way back if I 1160 00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:07,700 remember right but I do remember 1161 00:56:15,430 --> 00:56:13,130 yes in any case kill would give little 1162 00:56:18,580 --> 00:56:15,440 portions of of what eventually became 1163 00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:18,590 this series of books all of which was 1164 00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:20,210 material probably written at the same 1165 00:56:25,570 --> 00:56:22,130 time with the exception of the Mothman 1166 00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:25,580 material which was essentially the 1167 00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:29,330 notion that UFOs were a kind of a 1168 00:56:38,700 --> 00:56:34,970 deception for something much larger than 1169 00:56:42,130 --> 00:56:38,710 even the notion as big as it is of 1170 00:56:45,490 --> 00:56:42,140 visitations from extraterrestrials that 1171 00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:45,500 is beings from other planets in the 1172 00:56:50,620 --> 00:56:48,770 known universe and that's probably 1173 00:56:55,450 --> 00:56:50,630 accounts for the name operation Trojan 1174 00:56:59,700 --> 00:56:55,460 horse that is it's perceived as a gift 1175 00:57:03,520 --> 00:56:59,710 or a fantasy but it actually contains 1176 00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:03,530 sparing gifts and those gifts are not to 1177 00:57:09,550 --> 00:57:06,050 kindly if one happens to be a Trojan and 1178 00:57:14,110 --> 00:57:09,560 heaven knows America is filled with 1179 00:57:16,270 --> 00:57:14,120 Trojans these days okay now though 1180 00:57:19,030 --> 00:57:16,280 you're not gonna touch that line are you 1181 00:57:20,950 --> 00:57:19,040 I I'm going to leave it sometimes you 1182 00:57:22,870 --> 00:57:20,960 know it's better to let oh I'm dropping 1183 00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:22,880 it dropped they could become your 1184 00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:26,930 sponsor Hey on the other hand I don't 1185 00:57:29,890 --> 00:57:28,130 put them on my hand but that's not 1186 00:57:33,370 --> 00:57:29,900 important right now go on go on 1187 00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:33,380 all right now when we did the memorial 1188 00:57:38,260 --> 00:57:35,570 show for John keel the suggestion was 1189 00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:38,270 made very much that he had some very 1190 00:57:44,020 --> 00:57:39,650 interesting ideas that maybe his 1191 00:57:45,970 --> 00:57:44,030 research was a little bit wanting did 1192 00:57:48,370 --> 00:57:45,980 you have Jerry Clark or somebody like 1193 00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:48,380 that on the show I think that's fair 1194 00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:53,450 okay look I think keels worser his field 1195 00:58:01,120 --> 00:57:57,290 research with one flaw and I'll get to 1196 00:58:03,670 --> 00:58:01,130 that his field research was honest was 1197 00:58:07,060 --> 00:58:03,680 thorough and he was more of a real 1198 00:58:09,790 --> 00:58:07,070 reporter than virtually any of the 1199 00:58:12,370 --> 00:58:09,800 people who dignify themselves with the 1200 00:58:14,740 --> 00:58:12,380 term ufologists as if there were some 1201 00:58:17,770 --> 00:58:14,750 particular field of expertise that 1202 00:58:21,130 --> 00:58:17,780 qualifies one to call oneself a 1203 00:58:22,930 --> 00:58:21,140 ufologist that annoys me beyond 1204 00:58:25,299 --> 00:58:22,940 all words what what makes a ufologist 1205 00:58:27,430 --> 00:58:25,309 that you're an astrophysicist that 1206 00:58:29,380 --> 00:58:27,440 you're a physicist that you're an 1207 00:58:31,660 --> 00:58:29,390 amateur in the true sense of the word 1208 00:58:33,490 --> 00:58:31,670 that is one who is interested for the 1209 00:58:38,049 --> 00:58:33,500 love of it that one is a credulous 1210 00:58:40,690 --> 00:58:38,059 believer that one is a militant skeptic 1211 00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:40,700 what are the qualifications well one of 1212 00:58:44,650 --> 00:58:42,410 the qualifications has to be an 1213 00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:44,660 inquiring reporter who has a sense of 1214 00:58:49,089 --> 00:58:47,210 adventure and that is precisely the 1215 00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:49,099 credential that John get John keel 1216 00:58:55,599 --> 00:58:52,210 approach this with where his credulity 1217 00:58:57,819 --> 00:58:55,609 came in and you can see it a bit in the 1218 00:59:01,720 --> 00:58:57,829 movie version of the Mothman Prophecies 1219 00:59:05,140 --> 00:59:01,730 are the phone calls because you and I 1220 00:59:08,529 --> 00:59:05,150 know that we had two friends now gone on 1221 00:59:13,359 --> 00:59:08,539 to their much deserved rewards who were 1222 00:59:17,430 --> 00:59:13,369 prone to imbibe a little herb and much 1223 00:59:20,079 --> 00:59:17,440 brew and pick up the phone and 1224 00:59:22,299 --> 00:59:20,089 mythologized they did it with me during 1225 00:59:24,099 --> 00:59:22,309 a citywide sky watch and I actually 1226 00:59:27,700 --> 00:59:24,109 recorded the thing and they told me 1227 00:59:30,579 --> 00:59:27,710 later it was them it was very well done 1228 00:59:33,279 --> 00:59:30,589 but you know I was skeptical about it 1229 00:59:35,140 --> 00:59:33,289 enough to get my tape recorder turned on 1230 00:59:37,779 --> 00:59:35,150 about halfway through it and then listen 1231 00:59:39,700 --> 00:59:37,789 to it and decide that it was something I 1232 00:59:42,430 --> 00:59:39,710 wasn't sure that it was them but it was 1233 00:59:45,279 --> 00:59:42,440 something that was done with electronica 1234 00:59:47,890 --> 00:59:45,289 type stuff that was rare at the time but 1235 00:59:49,870 --> 00:59:47,900 which you know is very easy to come by 1236 00:59:52,630 --> 00:59:49,880 right now in fact if we get really bad 1237 00:59:56,319 --> 00:59:52,640 feedback on this will sound exactly like 1238 00:59:59,410 --> 00:59:56,329 the phone call sounded and these two 1239 01:00:01,599 --> 00:59:59,420 gentleman's mr. Barker and mr. Mosley I 1240 01:00:03,370 --> 01:00:01,609 think in each their own way we're very 1241 01:00:05,829 --> 01:00:03,380 serious about what they were doing but 1242 01:00:08,769 --> 01:00:05,839 they also had a good sense of humor and 1243 01:00:11,829 --> 01:00:08,779 they were good pranksters and Keele in 1244 01:00:17,009 --> 01:00:11,839 the middle of really really strange 1245 01:00:20,349 --> 01:00:17,019 stuff going on in West Virginia and I 1246 01:00:23,019 --> 01:00:20,359 believe on Long Island in in New York 1247 01:00:25,809 --> 01:00:23,029 and other things that he investigated 1248 01:00:29,529 --> 01:00:25,819 firsthand which I think were quite as 1249 01:00:33,249 --> 01:00:29,539 genuine as your own brief experience 1250 01:00:35,110 --> 01:00:33,259 with a quote man in black unquote that 1251 01:00:37,870 --> 01:00:35,120 is can't tell what it is 1252 01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:37,880 it certainly isn't something that one 1253 01:00:45,250 --> 01:00:41,090 would expect doesn't fit the pattern of 1254 01:00:49,270 --> 01:00:45,260 the regular day-to-day CNN 1255 01:00:53,020 --> 01:00:49,280 universe he could easily be freaked out 1256 01:00:55,570 --> 01:00:53,030 by these phone calls with strange 1257 01:00:58,000 --> 01:00:55,580 messages and hang-ups and who would find 1258 01:01:00,990 --> 01:00:58,010 his phone number that he'd only given to 1259 01:01:04,660 --> 01:01:01,000 trusted friends which of course included 1260 01:01:07,090 --> 01:01:04,670 Mosely and Parker yes exactly and I 1261 01:01:09,730 --> 01:01:07,100 think those things we can consider to be 1262 01:01:12,310 --> 01:01:09,740 in at least the vast majority of 1263 01:01:16,630 --> 01:01:12,320 instances things that qu'il took 1264 01:01:19,150 --> 01:01:16,640 seriously because he didn't think that 1265 01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:19,160 they would do something like that 1266 01:01:25,660 --> 01:01:22,130 whereas those of us who were on more 1267 01:01:27,130 --> 01:01:25,670 intimate terms with them assumed that if 1268 01:01:28,690 --> 01:01:27,140 a couple of years went by and they 1269 01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:28,700 didn't do something like that that they 1270 01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:30,890 were you know something was wrong 1271 01:01:35,890 --> 01:01:33,410 of course there's the intriguing I 1272 01:01:38,830 --> 01:01:35,900 always go back to it you you have 1273 01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:38,840 apparently the last time we talked about 1274 01:01:43,540 --> 01:01:41,210 it switched a little bit that you were 1275 01:01:46,210 --> 01:01:43,550 they my original source on this the 1276 01:01:48,790 --> 01:01:46,220 Wanaque Reservoir thing now I know you 1277 01:01:52,630 --> 01:01:48,800 went out and investigated it but you had 1278 01:01:54,970 --> 01:01:52,640 told me at the time and my memory is oh 1279 01:01:56,650 --> 01:01:54,980 so crystal clear and I probably even 1280 01:01:58,900 --> 01:01:56,660 have it taped somewhere I taped 1281 01:02:01,900 --> 01:01:58,910 everything back in those days we we 1282 01:02:04,810 --> 01:02:01,910 taped far too much stuff but you told me 1283 01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:04,820 on the phone long distance that Jim had 1284 01:02:09,310 --> 01:02:07,370 gotten really really drunk one night and 1285 01:02:12,220 --> 01:02:09,320 I guess you were at his apartment or it 1286 01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:12,230 make me at the saucer news office it was 1287 01:02:16,390 --> 01:02:14,810 at his apartment and your memory is 1288 01:02:19,630 --> 01:02:16,400 correct I don't think I denied it I 1289 01:02:21,940 --> 01:02:19,640 think that Jim did indeed make a phone 1290 01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:21,950 call a hoax phone call to the police in 1291 01:02:26,940 --> 01:02:24,890 that area somewhat before the actual 1292 01:02:31,780 --> 01:02:26,950 sightings occurred it was the day before 1293 01:02:35,290 --> 01:02:31,790 they started the day after the the 1294 01:02:37,780 --> 01:02:35,300 sighting started the day after he made 1295 01:02:40,900 --> 01:02:37,790 the drunken phone call which he was so 1296 01:02:42,970 --> 01:02:40,910 drunk that in later years he denied 1297 01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:42,980 actually happening we both confronted 1298 01:02:46,220 --> 01:02:44,690 him on a program a couple of years ago I 1299 01:02:47,780 --> 01:02:46,230 remember that's right 1300 01:02:50,390 --> 01:02:47,790 should have backed me up cuz he said oh 1301 01:02:52,370 --> 01:02:50,400 I didn't do that and you were there you 1302 01:02:54,380 --> 01:02:52,380 know and and I was counting on your 1303 01:02:58,970 --> 01:02:54,390 memory because I would suspect you were 1304 01:03:02,030 --> 01:02:58,980 cold sober and he was stoned out of his 1305 01:03:04,550 --> 01:03:02,040 mind on one or another or several 1306 01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:04,560 substances just to mention so people 1307 01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:07,170 understand about my personality I have 1308 01:03:10,599 --> 01:03:09,210 never had a taste for alcohol it doesn't 1309 01:03:14,089 --> 01:03:10,609 mean that I have not hadn't taken 1310 01:03:17,359 --> 01:03:14,099 substances but those substances were not 1311 01:03:19,130 --> 01:03:17,369 alcohol I tried it a few times with one 1312 01:03:22,339 --> 01:03:19,140 particular girlfriend who said watch you 1313 01:03:23,569 --> 01:03:22,349 try this and I say okay but after we 1314 01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:23,579 broke up it was a very short 1315 01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:26,130 relationship I never got into it again 1316 01:03:29,180 --> 01:03:27,450 people don't believe me they're 1317 01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:29,190 listening all the Steinberg's probably 1318 01:03:33,140 --> 01:03:30,570 drunk when he does this show no he's not 1319 01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:33,150 but we're happy to have alan greenfield 1320 01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:35,250 we're talking about the research of John 1321 01:03:40,490 --> 01:03:37,890 keel how it relates to possible 1322 01:03:46,190 --> 01:03:40,500 alternate realities and other stuff I'm 1323 01:03:51,380 --> 01:03:48,339 [Music] 1324 01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:51,390 hey neighbors meetings are an essential 1325 01:03:55,700 --> 01:03:53,490 part of any business you know making 1326 01:03:57,650 --> 01:03:55,710 presentations to clients collaborating 1327 01:04:00,349 --> 01:03:57,660 with your colleagues will make them as 1328 01:04:03,710 --> 01:04:00,359 simple as possible to run and organize 1329 01:04:06,050 --> 01:04:03,720 use GoToMeeting by citrix the easiest 1330 01:04:07,819 --> 01:04:06,060 most reliable online meeting service 1331 01:04:10,550 --> 01:04:07,829 with goto meeting you can schedule an 1332 01:04:12,620 --> 01:04:10,560 online meeting in seconds attendees can 1333 01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:12,630 join with just two click from anywhere 1334 01:04:16,670 --> 01:04:14,730 meeting materials are viewed on 1335 01:04:19,130 --> 01:04:16,680 everyone's screen making the 1336 01:04:21,470 --> 01:04:19,140 collaboration seamless goto meeting is 1337 01:04:22,579 --> 01:04:21,480 so easy to use for you and everyone 1338 01:04:25,190 --> 01:04:22,589 joining your meeting 1339 01:04:28,250 --> 01:04:25,200 plus with goto meeting hold as many 1340 01:04:30,290 --> 01:04:28,260 meetings as you can for one flat rate to 1341 01:04:32,870 --> 01:04:30,300 have phone conferencing and voice over 1342 01:04:35,450 --> 01:04:32,880 IP are included you know my listeners 1343 01:04:38,420 --> 01:04:35,460 can try goto meeting free for 30 days a 1344 01:04:41,150 --> 01:04:38,430 month of unlimited online meetings free 1345 01:04:43,900 --> 01:04:41,160 visit goto meeting.com click on the try 1346 01:04:47,300 --> 01:04:43,910 it free button and enter the promo code 1347 01:04:50,690 --> 01:04:47,310 podcast that's goto meeting.com promo 1348 01:04:52,049 --> 01:04:50,700 code podcast as many people know ever 1349 01:04:54,179 --> 01:04:52,059 since President Nixon 1350 01:04:55,890 --> 01:04:54,189 Asaf the gold standard the US dollar has 1351 01:04:57,390 --> 01:04:55,900 been evaluating but people don't know 1352 01:04:59,640 --> 01:04:57,400 however is how this directly affects 1353 01:05:01,319 --> 01:04:59,650 your personal finances is there a way to 1354 01:05:03,179 --> 01:05:01,329 protect your portfolios from losing 1355 01:05:04,829 --> 01:05:03,189 value the answer to all of this is gold 1356 01:05:06,689 --> 01:05:04,839 and silver they both have maintained 1357 01:05:09,479 --> 01:05:06,699 their purchasing power for 6,000 years 1358 01:05:10,979 --> 01:05:09,489 if you had $100,000 in cash and a 1359 01:05:13,859 --> 01:05:10,989 hundred thousand dollars in gold and 1360 01:05:15,299 --> 01:05:13,869 silver back in 1913 and kept them until 1361 01:05:16,650 --> 01:05:15,309 now your cash would have the buying 1362 01:05:18,150 --> 01:05:16,660 power of only four thousand eight 1363 01:05:19,620 --> 01:05:18,160 hundred dollars but your gold and silver 1364 01:05:21,539 --> 01:05:19,630 would have the buying power of three 1365 01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:21,549 million dollars the answer to protecting 1366 01:06:11,880 --> 01:05:23,650 your assets is simple call John Baum and 1367 01:06:14,699 --> 01:06:11,890 today at 1-866-376-8255 are filters 1368 01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:14,709 disaster stuff calm is the official 1369 01:06:19,199 --> 01:06:17,170 Berkey in stock shipping Center and as 1370 01:06:21,630 --> 01:06:19,209 always free shipping and all Berkey 1371 01:06:23,999 --> 01:06:21,640 products stock up on water barrels and 1372 01:06:26,370 --> 01:06:24,009 accessories get Country Living or wonder 1373 01:06:29,039 --> 01:06:26,380 mill grain mills Excalibur food 1374 01:06:32,459 --> 01:06:29,049 dehydrators Tattler reusable canning 1375 01:06:34,859 --> 01:06:32,469 lids Sun Oven solar cookers EMP bags to 1376 01:06:36,929 --> 01:06:34,869 protect sensitive electronics and don't 1377 01:06:39,769 --> 01:06:36,939 be without your LifeStraw personal water 1378 01:06:42,269 --> 01:06:39,779 filter all from disaster stuff Calm 1379 01:06:45,630 --> 01:06:42,279 preparedness is simple with the right 1380 01:06:47,459 --> 01:06:45,640 stuff from disaster stuff calm freedom 1381 01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:47,469 through self-reliance and personal 1382 01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:49,290 responsibility 1383 01:06:53,940 --> 01:06:52,090 if you have the IRS back taxes listen 1384 01:06:55,530 --> 01:06:53,950 carefully sweeping changes to IRS 1385 01:06:57,450 --> 01:06:55,540 policies will help more people than ever 1386 01:07:00,030 --> 01:06:57,460 eliminate their tax debts once and for 1387 01:07:01,740 --> 01:07:00,040 all and now I can help you reduce or 1388 01:07:04,350 --> 01:07:01,750 eliminate your tax debts and end your 1389 01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:04,360 tax nightmare hi I'm Dan pillow I've 1390 01:07:07,260 --> 01:07:05,890 helped thousands of people reduce and 1391 01:07:08,820 --> 01:07:07,270 eliminate tax debts they couldn't pay 1392 01:07:10,830 --> 01:07:08,830 and after more than 30 years of 1393 01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:10,840 experience dealing with the IRS I can 1394 01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:12,250 tell you there's no such thing as a 1395 01:07:16,290 --> 01:07:14,290 hopeless tax case and what the IRS has 1396 01:07:18,030 --> 01:07:16,300 new policies it's easier than ever to 1397 01:07:18,510 --> 01:07:18,040 put your tax debt behind you once and 1398 01:07:20,730 --> 01:07:18,520 for all 1399 01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:20,740 call now at eight hundred three four six 1400 01:07:24,510 --> 01:07:22,690 six eight to nine to learn how I can 1401 01:07:26,550 --> 01:07:24,520 help you you know your IRS debt will not 1402 01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:26,560 go away by itself but you don't have to 1403 01:07:31,350 --> 01:07:29,410 live in fear anymore call 803 four six 1404 01:07:33,150 --> 01:07:31,360 six eight twenty nine learn how I can 1405 01:07:35,100 --> 01:07:33,160 help you eliminate wage and Bank levies 1406 01:07:36,750 --> 01:07:35,110 for these tax liens and negotiate a 1407 01:07:38,910 --> 01:07:36,760 settlement with the IRS that will put 1408 01:07:42,810 --> 01:07:38,920 your tax nightmare behind you forever 1409 01:07:50,660 --> 01:07:42,820 call 834 no tax or go to tax help 1410 01:07:55,650 --> 01:07:53,640 we'd like to hear from you if you have a 1411 01:07:59,550 --> 01:07:55,660 comment a question about the para cast 1412 01:08:03,000 --> 01:07:59,560 sent it to muse at the para cast com 1413 01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:03,010 that's news at the para cast calm and 1414 01:08:08,190 --> 01:08:05,050 don't forget to visit our famous para 1415 01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:08,200 cast community forums at forum dot the 1416 01:08:14,340 --> 01:08:12,250 para cast calm on the power cast this 1417 01:08:16,230 --> 01:08:14,350 week alan greenfield joins us Chris 1418 01:08:19,830 --> 01:08:16,240 O'Brien took the night off 1419 01:08:21,630 --> 01:08:19,840 but with alan greenfield around i will 1420 01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:21,640 never take the night off because i 1421 01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:23,650 always enjoy our conversations okay 1422 01:08:27,660 --> 01:08:25,690 in fact i missed those conversations 1423 01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:27,670 he's been on the power cast a few times 1424 01:08:31,860 --> 01:08:30,250 by himself but usually with other guests 1425 01:08:35,190 --> 01:08:31,870 but we have them all to ourselves this 1426 01:08:38,130 --> 01:08:35,200 time and we could listen now do we 1427 01:08:40,770 --> 01:08:38,140 assume at all here that some of those 1428 01:08:42,330 --> 01:08:40,780 phone calls have some I don't know fall 1429 01:08:45,030 --> 01:08:42,340 some of those phone calls that kill 1430 01:08:48,030 --> 01:08:45,040 receive were from those two people but 1431 01:08:51,390 --> 01:08:48,040 maybe not all well they could have all 1432 01:08:54,210 --> 01:08:51,400 been from them but here did he know he's 1433 01:08:57,060 --> 01:08:54,220 a smart guy he was a smart guy he should 1434 01:08:59,490 --> 01:08:57,070 have known this well this is the way I 1435 01:09:02,170 --> 01:08:59,500 see it and of course you can take it for 1436 01:09:06,070 --> 01:09:02,180 what it's worth the whole moth 1437 01:09:09,340 --> 01:09:06,080 and minute black really intense period 1438 01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:09,350 and the we'll just say the late 1960s 1439 01:09:15,070 --> 01:09:13,130 was really really weird Jean I mean 1440 01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:15,080 those of us who did any on-scene 1441 01:09:20,770 --> 01:09:17,930 investigation it was weirder than most 1442 01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:20,780 of this stuff it was more like a serious 1443 01:09:27,070 --> 01:09:23,090 ghost ton than it was like your 1444 01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:27,080 classical UFO investigation I've been on 1445 01:09:33,910 --> 01:09:30,050 both and I can tell you it had this sort 1446 01:09:36,810 --> 01:09:33,920 of evil undertone to it maybe evil is 1447 01:09:40,150 --> 01:09:36,820 too strong a term let's just say dark 1448 01:09:43,420 --> 01:09:40,160 undertone unpleasant undertone and I 1449 01:09:46,060 --> 01:09:43,430 think enough of that you start to get if 1450 01:09:49,620 --> 01:09:46,070 you're not very careful you start to get 1451 01:09:52,290 --> 01:09:49,630 either extremely skeptical in 1452 01:09:55,150 --> 01:09:52,300 self-defense or you start to get 1453 01:09:58,240 --> 01:09:55,160 extremely gullible because you've seen 1454 01:10:02,770 --> 01:09:58,250 so many dark wondrous things that have 1455 01:10:04,570 --> 01:10:02,780 something dark and fraudulent takes 1456 01:10:06,610 --> 01:10:04,580 place you're going to be more inclined 1457 01:10:10,090 --> 01:10:06,620 to credit it than you would be otherwise 1458 01:10:13,900 --> 01:10:10,100 I think all the calls may have been from 1459 01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:13,910 Jim and/or gray but there is one thing 1460 01:10:18,940 --> 01:10:15,650 that puzzles me and I'll leave it at 1461 01:10:22,870 --> 01:10:18,950 this some of them were two numbers that 1462 01:10:24,940 --> 01:10:22,880 he had changed his phone - that is keel 1463 01:10:27,070 --> 01:10:24,950 in order to get some piece because he 1464 01:10:28,660 --> 01:10:27,080 was actually on the verge of a nervous 1465 01:10:31,480 --> 01:10:28,670 breakdown which I believe he had 1466 01:10:33,670 --> 01:10:31,490 actually if I recall correctly I mean it 1467 01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:33,680 really broke him down he was trying to 1468 01:10:37,990 --> 01:10:35,810 avoid this and he changed his number and 1469 01:10:40,150 --> 01:10:38,000 before the number was was changed 1470 01:10:41,890 --> 01:10:40,160 properly as sort of reflected in the 1471 01:10:45,580 --> 01:10:41,900 movie you know he'd be getting another 1472 01:10:48,190 --> 01:10:45,590 call from injured cold or from you name 1473 01:10:51,430 --> 01:10:48,200 it creatures with no names and and 1474 01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:51,440 mumbling sounds and strange noises and a 1475 01:10:57,220 --> 01:10:53,930 lot of them especially the ones that 1476 01:11:00,850 --> 01:10:57,230 happened in in motels in in West 1477 01:11:05,350 --> 01:11:00,860 Virginia I think were from probably had 1478 01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:05,360 a Clarksburg area code but the ones 1479 01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:07,370 where he had changed his number and so 1480 01:11:13,930 --> 01:11:10,850 forth I think that one can overstate the 1481 01:11:14,830 --> 01:11:13,940 the likelihood that those were from Jim 1482 01:11:18,490 --> 01:11:14,840 are 1483 01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:18,500 gray my guess if I had to come down is 1484 01:11:23,950 --> 01:11:20,570 somehow or other they got ahold of the 1485 01:11:26,290 --> 01:11:23,960 new number they got just like they got 1486 01:11:28,810 --> 01:11:26,300 the their their stationery for the 1487 01:11:31,180 --> 01:11:28,820 famous straight letter hoax through one 1488 01:11:33,700 --> 01:11:31,190 of their circuitous routes it's entirely 1489 01:11:36,780 --> 01:11:33,710 possible that they they got the number 1490 01:11:40,660 --> 01:11:36,790 my guess is those calls were genuine 1491 01:11:44,010 --> 01:11:40,670 paranormal phenomena but it's impossible 1492 01:11:46,990 --> 01:11:44,020 to know most of the phenomena that Kiel 1493 01:11:49,839 --> 01:11:47,000 reported on though as far as I've been 1494 01:11:52,839 --> 01:11:49,849 ever ever been able to tell or perfectly 1495 01:11:54,399 --> 01:11:52,849 genuine and are confirmed by many other 1496 01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:54,409 sources including some that are 1497 01:11:59,430 --> 01:11:56,330 contemporary that have sort of gone back 1498 01:12:03,209 --> 01:11:59,440 over the same turf and found 1499 01:12:05,790 --> 01:12:03,219 confirmation even in far more recent 1500 01:12:08,979 --> 01:12:05,800 instances because while it's not as 1501 01:12:14,020 --> 01:12:08,989 anywhere nearly as intense as it was in 1502 01:12:16,089 --> 01:12:14,030 the late 1960s it's nevertheless these 1503 01:12:19,209 --> 01:12:16,099 things do occasionally happen in those 1504 01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:19,219 same areas and seem to involve for 1505 01:12:24,850 --> 01:12:22,610 example the one time I actually had an 1506 01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:24,860 experience with a man in Black was in 1507 01:12:30,550 --> 01:12:28,610 West Virginia I took the guy's picture I 1508 01:12:33,550 --> 01:12:30,560 would never have mentioned it if I 1509 01:12:36,430 --> 01:12:33,560 hadn't had literally a dozen witnesses 1510 01:12:39,129 --> 01:12:36,440 to this person being there and and a 1511 01:12:40,930 --> 01:12:39,139 sudden brave urge to go out and confront 1512 01:12:42,910 --> 01:12:40,940 this guy and take a picture of him and 1513 01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:42,920 then he disappeared around the corner 1514 01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:46,489 and disappeared I've had recent 1515 01:12:53,770 --> 01:12:49,130 confirmation of this same guy showing up 1516 01:12:56,350 --> 01:12:53,780 in in much more recent times and looking 1517 01:13:00,640 --> 01:12:56,360 the same and at the time he looked like 1518 01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:00,650 a hasty face sort of put together 20 1519 01:13:09,310 --> 01:13:06,130 year old and you take that was I think 1520 01:13:11,290 --> 01:13:09,320 1969 if I remember correctly the 1521 01:13:12,850 --> 01:13:11,300 Charleston West Virginia a national UFO 1522 01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:12,860 conference you'd have to look it up 68 1523 01:13:18,180 --> 01:13:15,770 or 69 he wouldn't be 20 years old now I 1524 01:13:22,540 --> 01:13:18,190 can tell you that from experience 1525 01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:22,550 we all look different and so that the 1526 01:13:27,670 --> 01:13:24,290 notion that somebody like that could 1527 01:13:31,180 --> 01:13:27,680 show up in the 21st century is real 1528 01:13:33,610 --> 01:13:31,190 really weird and yet that's from a very 1529 01:13:37,030 --> 01:13:33,620 reliable source for this sort of 1530 01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:37,040 material so this is very strange stuff 1531 01:13:41,170 --> 01:13:39,770 now one of the theories of course that 1532 01:13:42,730 --> 01:13:41,180 he'll presented was that vulture 1533 01:13:46,180 --> 01:13:42,740 terrestrials kind of an alternate 1534 01:13:49,030 --> 01:13:46,190 reality thing but he also said that God 1535 01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:49,040 was a computerized intelligence and one 1536 01:13:54,630 --> 01:13:51,770 not always sane and when I think of what 1537 01:13:57,580 --> 01:13:54,640 he said in one of his books I then 1538 01:14:01,570 --> 01:13:57,590 considered the movie series The Matrix 1539 01:14:04,810 --> 01:14:01,580 trilogy okay where our reality was 1540 01:14:08,170 --> 01:14:04,820 basically run by computers and the goal 1541 01:14:10,540 --> 01:14:08,180 of course was to awaken the populace and 1542 01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:10,550 give them their freedom and now there's 1543 01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:11,930 a story that came out the other day 1544 01:14:17,650 --> 01:14:15,530 suggesting that our universe is nothing 1545 01:14:20,680 --> 01:14:17,660 more than a computer simulation 1546 01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:20,690 somebody's video game well a computer 1547 01:14:25,390 --> 01:14:22,730 simulation I don't know about game I 1548 01:14:27,790 --> 01:14:25,400 don't think the matrix was perceived as 1549 01:14:30,340 --> 01:14:27,800 a game it was perceived if you watched 1550 01:14:32,710 --> 01:14:30,350 all three films I didn't say a game it 1551 01:14:35,340 --> 01:14:32,720 was a functioning computerized reality 1552 01:14:38,650 --> 01:14:35,350 where people were basically in stasis 1553 01:14:40,540 --> 01:14:38,660 experiencing their life mentally right 1554 01:14:43,570 --> 01:14:40,550 that doesn't mean that that is the 1555 01:14:46,510 --> 01:14:43,580 ultimate reality that's just another 1556 01:14:49,300 --> 01:14:46,520 stage up and in fact at the very very 1557 01:14:54,310 --> 01:14:49,310 end of the third movie you get a very 1558 01:14:56,790 --> 01:14:54,320 nasty spiritual interpretation very 1559 01:15:00,370 --> 01:14:56,800 easily lends itself to that that this 1560 01:15:05,980 --> 01:15:00,380 that one can ascend to an area of 1561 01:15:09,090 --> 01:15:05,990 consciousness that is greater than then 1562 01:15:12,910 --> 01:15:09,100 even that which is within the matrix 1563 01:15:14,620 --> 01:15:12,920 because anytime you talk about a and by 1564 01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:14,630 the way I think that is a very serious 1565 01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:18,410 idea I even tend to sort of subscribe to 1566 01:15:22,630 --> 01:15:20,810 it although I think we always are taking 1567 01:15:26,470 --> 01:15:22,640 whatever technology we have and 1568 01:15:28,480 --> 01:15:26,480 projecting it on to other beings and 1569 01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:28,490 when we come up with a new technology 1570 01:15:35,260 --> 01:15:30,650 then we project that on to them you know 1571 01:15:38,770 --> 01:15:35,270 rockets in the 1940s and then computers 1572 01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:38,780 now I think they one must assume that 1573 01:15:41,589 --> 01:15:40,210 there will be 1574 01:15:43,839 --> 01:15:41,599 technologies 1575 01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:43,849 exceed the technology that we now have 1576 01:15:49,029 --> 01:15:47,090 just by the momentum of history but of 1577 01:15:51,459 --> 01:15:49,039 course there's always the question even 1578 01:15:53,229 --> 01:15:51,469 assuming that it is a program who is the 1579 01:15:55,719 --> 01:15:53,239 ultimate programmer and who programmed 1580 01:15:59,020 --> 01:15:55,729 the programmer I I think talking about 1581 01:15:59,919 --> 01:15:59,030 that as being an ultimate God is kind of 1582 01:16:02,819 --> 01:15:59,929 missing the point 1583 01:16:06,369 --> 01:16:02,829 philip k dick on my favorite author 1584 01:16:10,869 --> 01:16:06,379 wrestled with that idea throughout his 1585 01:16:14,649 --> 01:16:10,879 career and in his parallel life as a 1586 01:16:18,669 --> 01:16:14,659 writer of of serious nonfiction that has 1587 01:16:21,729 --> 01:16:18,679 only recently been much of it published 1588 01:16:23,709 --> 01:16:21,739 as the exegesis which i recommend only 1589 01:16:26,199 --> 01:16:23,719 to people that have read a lot of his 1590 01:16:29,139 --> 01:16:26,209 quote fiction unquote 1591 01:16:31,599 --> 01:16:29,149 welcome to philip k dick and so much 1592 01:16:39,790 --> 01:16:31,609 more with alan greenfield joining gene 1593 01:16:43,089 --> 01:16:39,800 you're in the power cast are you tired 1594 01:16:46,149 --> 01:16:43,099 of searching for great talk radio more 1595 01:16:50,229 --> 01:16:46,159 important search for overall we are the 1596 01:16:52,449 --> 01:16:50,239 gcn radio network don't complain about 1597 01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:52,459 your cable bill going up and up and up 1598 01:16:56,049 --> 01:16:54,050 do something about it 1599 01:16:57,939 --> 01:16:56,059 grab a pencil and jot down this special 1600 01:17:00,849 --> 01:16:57,949 number one eight seven seven eight zero 1601 01:17:03,669 --> 01:17:00,859 for my TV the more cable TV rates go up 1602 01:17:05,589 --> 01:17:03,679 the better digital satellite TV looks so 1603 01:17:08,169 --> 01:17:05,599 disabled the cable and get more of your 1604 01:17:10,149 --> 01:17:08,179 favorite channels in 100% digital 1605 01:17:12,759 --> 01:17:10,159 quality for less money call one eight 1606 01:17:14,619 --> 01:17:12,769 seven seven eight zero for my TV right 1607 01:17:17,199 --> 01:17:14,629 now to sign up for packages starting as 1608 01:17:19,359 --> 01:17:17,209 low as $19.99 and up to four rooms and 1609 01:17:21,849 --> 01:17:19,369 there's no equipment to buy that 1610 01:17:24,159 --> 01:17:21,859 includes your free HDTV upgrade your 1611 01:17:26,109 --> 01:17:24,169 free DVR upgrade and your free 1612 01:17:28,299 --> 01:17:26,119 professional installation and the best 1613 01:17:30,399 --> 01:17:28,309 part the pristine digital picture and 1614 01:17:32,859 --> 01:17:30,409 sound call twenty seven seven eight zero 1615 01:17:34,810 --> 01:17:32,869 for my TV so what are you waiting for 1616 01:17:36,849 --> 01:17:34,820 pull out your major credit or debit card 1617 01:17:39,159 --> 01:17:36,859 call twenty seven seven eight zero for 1618 01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:39,169 my TV one eighty seven seven eight zero 1619 01:17:45,429 --> 01:17:42,050 for my TV disable the cable cut costs 1620 01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:45,439 and get more call 2717 zero for my TV 1621 01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:48,050 one eight seven seven feet zero for my 1622 01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:53,540 we have witnessed two terrible storms in 1623 01:17:58,070 --> 01:17:55,650 the east but we are still in the eye of 1624 01:17:59,450 --> 01:17:58,080 the perfect storm the most devastating 1625 01:18:00,140 --> 01:17:59,460 economic conditions since the Great 1626 01:18:02,270 --> 01:18:00,150 Depression 1627 01:18:04,610 --> 01:18:02,280 America's worst drought in agricultural 1628 01:18:06,650 --> 01:18:04,620 history and now the economic results of 1629 01:18:08,420 --> 01:18:06,660 the presidential election this perfect 1630 01:18:10,940 --> 01:18:08,430 storm is a huge threat to everyone's 1631 01:18:12,710 --> 01:18:10,950 food supply I just doubled down and got 1632 01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:12,720 even more supplies from eat foods direct 1633 01:18:16,430 --> 01:18:14,730 and I recommend you do the same it's 1634 01:18:18,500 --> 01:18:16,440 time to get your own supply for me foods 1635 01:18:20,210 --> 01:18:18,510 direct I know I won't be standing in a 1636 01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:20,220 bread line trading my freedom for food 1637 01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:22,770 I'm taking control of my future and 1638 01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:25,170 you're nuts if you don't do the same go 1639 01:18:28,790 --> 01:18:26,970 to eat foods direct calm forward-slash 1640 01:18:30,230 --> 01:18:28,800 Alex to find the specials and you can 1641 01:18:33,230 --> 01:18:30,240 start with a holiday gift pack that's 1642 01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:33,240 normally $80 now under 50 bucks remember 1643 01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:35,370 I can warn you but I can't feed you call 1644 01:18:41,750 --> 01:18:39,210 800 to 409 5 6 33 or a food zareta comm 1645 01:18:44,060 --> 01:18:41,760 board / Alex would you rather prepare 6 1646 01:18:49,660 --> 01:18:44,070 months too early or one day too late or 1647 01:18:52,520 --> 01:18:49,670 o 9 5 6 3 3 or even direct comm 4 / Alex 1648 01:18:54,230 --> 01:18:52,530 check out stun-gun Mike's comm they 1649 01:18:56,750 --> 01:18:54,240 specialize in home and business security 1650 01:18:58,520 --> 01:18:56,760 family safety and personal protection at 1651 01:19:00,560 --> 01:18:58,530 stun-gun Mike's comm they have 1652 01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:00,570 everything from mace pepper sprayers to 1653 01:19:03,170 --> 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01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:00,190 you do listen to the podcast because you 1697 01:21:13,110 --> 01:21:11,220 on the power cast we're joined by Alan 1698 01:21:14,940 --> 01:21:13,120 Greenfield longtime UFO an occult 1699 01:21:17,220 --> 01:21:14,950 researcher and we're talking about the 1700 01:21:19,470 --> 01:21:17,230 works of Phil k dick and they've made so 1701 01:21:20,970 --> 01:21:19,480 many movies of the things that he wrote 1702 01:21:22,650 --> 01:21:20,980 of course there are two versions of 1703 01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:22,660 Total Recall now the original Arnold 1704 01:21:28,260 --> 01:21:25,690 Schwarzenegger version which plays havoc 1705 01:21:34,490 --> 01:21:28,270 with one's reality in a sense and a new 1706 01:21:37,860 --> 01:21:34,500 version Alan well let me as a almost 1707 01:21:43,950 --> 01:21:37,870 lifelong that is from the 19 late 1950s 1708 01:21:46,650 --> 01:21:43,960 on reader of Phil dicks work and great 1709 01:21:51,060 --> 01:21:46,660 admirer of his all the way up to you the 1710 01:21:54,030 --> 01:21:51,070 only recently published private journals 1711 01:21:55,380 --> 01:21:54,040 of of his ideas about the nature of 1712 01:21:59,040 --> 01:21:55,390 reality in the nature of the universe 1713 01:22:03,650 --> 01:21:59,050 which I would say is spiritual Gnostic 1714 01:22:06,570 --> 01:22:03,660 Christian and way beyond anything that 1715 01:22:08,910 --> 01:22:06,580 most of his contemporaries were doing 1716 01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:08,920 very thoughtful stuff but meaningless if 1717 01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:13,290 you haven't read at least his best 1718 01:22:20,090 --> 01:22:17,170 fiction I forgot where I was going with 1719 01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:20,100 this helped me along here okay so 1720 01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:24,130 talking about reality to talk about the 1721 01:22:29,940 --> 01:22:26,530 movies okay I was going to disagree with 1722 01:22:32,580 --> 01:22:29,950 you on that I didn't make an agreement I 1723 01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:32,590 just mentioned two of the movies yes 1724 01:22:37,710 --> 01:22:35,410 well but most of the movies that the 1725 01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:37,720 first movie that was made based on 1726 01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:40,930 anything that Phil Kay dick wrote was 1727 01:22:48,900 --> 01:22:44,970 Blade Runner and and Blade Runner 1728 01:22:51,990 --> 01:22:48,910 angered him privately and he died before 1729 01:22:55,350 --> 01:22:52,000 it actually came out but he had written 1730 01:22:57,840 --> 01:22:55,360 some really he felt very very 1731 01:23:01,740 --> 01:22:57,850 compromised by it and anyone who has 1732 01:23:04,850 --> 01:23:01,750 read the book that it is sort of a a 1733 01:23:06,860 --> 01:23:04,860 thread from the book do 1734 01:23:10,100 --> 01:23:06,870 Androids Dream of Electric Sheep which 1735 01:23:11,720 --> 01:23:10,110 is a very profound title to begin with 1736 01:23:14,390 --> 01:23:11,730 well the one thing to mention before you 1737 01:23:17,660 --> 01:23:14,400 go on and that is I gather he was never 1738 01:23:20,690 --> 01:23:17,670 happy or rarely happy with the way they 1739 01:23:22,490 --> 01:23:20,700 made movies of his various books well no 1740 01:23:24,260 --> 01:23:22,500 there's no way to know that because he 1741 01:23:27,050 --> 01:23:24,270 died before any movies were made of his 1742 01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:27,060 books except he saw an early cut of 1743 01:23:32,540 --> 01:23:30,810 Blade Runner he died that that year the 1744 01:23:34,580 --> 01:23:32,550 year that Blade Runner came out and 1745 01:23:37,790 --> 01:23:34,590 before the movie actually had come out 1746 01:23:39,410 --> 01:23:37,800 as a public thing but they wanted was 1747 01:23:42,170 --> 01:23:39,420 that more of his family then who 1748 01:23:44,510 --> 01:23:42,180 objected I'm not sure if his family has 1749 01:23:48,050 --> 01:23:44,520 objected but what's been because they 1750 01:23:51,500 --> 01:23:48,060 have they have permitted a number of his 1751 01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:51,510 short stories to be turned into a movies 1752 01:23:54,950 --> 01:23:53,130 and I think that they're very 1753 01:23:59,030 --> 01:23:54,960 entertaining movies and his short 1754 01:24:01,340 --> 01:23:59,040 stories are not that difficult to turn 1755 01:24:04,160 --> 01:24:01,350 into films because they usually only 1756 01:24:07,730 --> 01:24:04,170 contain one novel idea no pun intended 1757 01:24:11,630 --> 01:24:07,740 but the novels in general have not been 1758 01:24:15,290 --> 01:24:11,640 turned into the into films and none of 1759 01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:15,300 his really important novels like you 1760 01:24:19,900 --> 01:24:17,610 Bacoor the man in the high castle or 1761 01:24:23,420 --> 01:24:19,910 most of all valise have ever been 1762 01:24:25,850 --> 01:24:23,430 brought to the silver screen as we used 1763 01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:25,860 to call it valise has been in 1764 01:24:33,470 --> 01:24:29,370 pre-production forever but it's a very 1765 01:24:37,370 --> 01:24:33,480 very difficult thing to to put into a 1766 01:24:41,420 --> 01:24:37,380 film version and they may even recut it 1767 01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:41,430 as a posthumously published book which 1768 01:24:45,410 --> 01:24:42,930 we really don't even know if he ever 1769 01:24:48,860 --> 01:24:45,420 wanted published called radio free album 1770 01:24:51,890 --> 01:24:48,870 of the point being that his his work is 1771 01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:51,900 far more complex than the movies a Total 1772 01:24:57,620 --> 01:24:54,770 Recall is based on a short story 1773 01:24:59,750 --> 01:24:57,630 screamer's is based on a short story The 1774 01:25:04,010 --> 01:24:59,760 Adjustment Bureau is based on a short 1775 01:25:07,310 --> 01:25:04,020 story and on and on the only other book 1776 01:25:11,660 --> 01:25:07,320 that has ever been turned into a film 1777 01:25:13,220 --> 01:25:11,670 was a very very weird film let's see if 1778 01:25:14,970 --> 01:25:13,230 I can think of the name it was all done 1779 01:25:21,630 --> 01:25:14,980 and rotoscope 1780 01:25:24,810 --> 01:25:21,640 had Keanu Reeves in it but who helped me 1781 01:25:26,400 --> 01:25:24,820 here I'm sorry you're on your own here I 1782 01:25:31,530 --> 01:25:26,410 can't think what movie you're talking 1783 01:25:34,890 --> 01:25:31,540 about Scanner Darkly is the name of it 1784 01:25:39,110 --> 01:25:34,900 okay I remember and that's the only 1785 01:25:41,490 --> 01:25:39,120 other book that was during his anti-drug 1786 01:25:42,870 --> 01:25:41,500 faith by the way you were mentioning you 1787 01:25:45,900 --> 01:25:42,880 know what you've done what you haven't 1788 01:25:48,060 --> 01:25:45,910 done I used to get drunk at UFO 1789 01:25:52,350 --> 01:25:48,070 conventions once a year got sick 1790 01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:52,360 disappeared for a day and in the mostly 1791 01:25:56,250 --> 01:25:54,850 lexicon that became known as pulling a 1792 01:25:59,250 --> 01:25:56,260 green feel there were actually two 1793 01:26:02,850 --> 01:25:59,260 reasons for that one was if I got drunk 1794 01:26:05,430 --> 01:26:02,860 I was sick for 24 hours and spent time 1795 01:26:08,160 --> 01:26:05,440 worshipping at the porcelain bowl the 1796 01:26:11,310 --> 01:26:08,170 other is I was trying very hard to be an 1797 01:26:13,380 --> 01:26:11,320 Orthodox Jew and I disappeared on from 1798 01:26:14,790 --> 01:26:13,390 Friday night sunset til Saturday night 1799 01:26:16,979 --> 01:26:14,800 sunset because I wouldn't do the 1800 01:26:19,200 --> 01:26:16,989 convention at that time but I never told 1801 01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:19,210 anyone until right at this moment or 1802 01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:20,890 either one of those things but I don't 1803 01:26:25,709 --> 01:26:22,210 drink I don't do drugs I'm a 1804 01:26:29,189 --> 01:26:25,719 straightedge and I encourage others to 1805 01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:29,199 do so but condemn none for experimenting 1806 01:26:32,669 --> 01:26:31,090 with whatever they think is best just 1807 01:26:37,169 --> 01:26:32,679 keeping in mind that when I'm around 1808 01:26:40,110 --> 01:26:37,179 people who are dopers or drinkers and 1809 01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:40,120 I'm straight edge I feel like I'm at the 1810 01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:41,290 advantage and they're at the 1811 01:26:45,180 --> 01:26:42,850 disadvantage they tend to believe 1812 01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:45,190 everything and I tend to look at things 1813 01:26:52,290 --> 01:26:48,730 sort of in a balanced way even when 1814 01:26:54,600 --> 01:26:52,300 they're off it's like if they're regular 1815 01:26:56,729 --> 01:26:54,610 imbibe errs it seems to increase 1816 01:26:59,790 --> 01:26:56,739 credulity okay that's what's really 1817 01:27:02,669 --> 01:26:59,800 segue here get back to philip k dick how 1818 01:27:05,090 --> 01:27:02,679 do his writings impact on our studies of 1819 01:27:09,479 --> 01:27:05,100 other dimensions of the reality's other 1820 01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:09,489 systems of our framework of our 1821 01:27:19,410 --> 01:27:15,010 existence he thought that reality was a 1822 01:27:22,410 --> 01:27:19,420 sliding scale and essentially it was 1823 01:27:25,680 --> 01:27:22,420 very very difficult if not impossible to 1824 01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:25,690 determine what is and is not reality in 1825 01:27:30,500 --> 01:27:28,690 that sense he may have anticipated 1826 01:27:34,140 --> 01:27:30,510 the philosophical school of 1827 01:27:37,620 --> 01:27:34,150 deconstructionism he had definite ideas 1828 01:27:40,770 --> 01:27:37,630 about what ultimate reality was all 1829 01:27:44,790 --> 01:27:40,780 about which he thought was some sort of 1830 01:27:46,740 --> 01:27:44,800 pure consciousness that took many many 1831 01:27:50,850 --> 01:27:46,750 different forms and that you could 1832 01:27:52,379 --> 01:27:50,860 conveniently call God but at times he 1833 01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:52,389 thought of it in the same way that you 1834 01:27:58,680 --> 01:27:55,690 mentioned with keel as a computer and 1835 01:28:01,410 --> 01:27:58,690 possibly a mad computer entity somewhat 1836 01:28:04,439 --> 01:28:01,420 similar to the Gnostic deme 1837 01:28:07,470 --> 01:28:04,449 or ghost in the notion of this being 1838 01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:07,480 that is less than God but has the hubris 1839 01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:11,530 to think that it is God in flatland it's 1840 01:28:17,129 --> 01:28:15,250 called the point being which thinks that 1841 01:28:22,250 --> 01:28:17,139 it is the only thing that really exists 1842 01:28:25,280 --> 01:28:22,260 but his his view was that there was 1843 01:28:28,979 --> 01:28:25,290 consciousness and love at the center of 1844 01:28:31,290 --> 01:28:28,989 being and that that took on many forms 1845 01:28:34,770 --> 01:28:31,300 and many manifestations but they could 1846 01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:34,780 they were very changeable they were very 1847 01:28:40,319 --> 01:28:38,170 malleable and I am saying this and my 1848 01:28:42,780 --> 01:28:40,329 inner voice is saying to me at the same 1849 01:28:45,300 --> 01:28:42,790 time you ain't doing it justice Allen 1850 01:28:47,700 --> 01:28:45,310 and I'm not the only way to go about it 1851 01:28:49,740 --> 01:28:47,710 if you're if you're familiar with this 1852 01:28:53,310 --> 01:28:49,750 works you get some idea this if you 1853 01:28:59,359 --> 01:28:53,320 familiar with is his that the corpus of 1854 01:29:04,500 --> 01:28:59,369 his better novels and then go on to read 1855 01:29:06,540 --> 01:29:04,510 at least the Valles trilogy and which 1856 01:29:09,870 --> 01:29:06,550 was at the very end of his life the last 1857 01:29:14,160 --> 01:29:09,880 of them was not even a science fiction 1858 01:29:16,350 --> 01:29:14,170 book it was mainstream fiction called 1859 01:29:20,490 --> 01:29:16,360 the transmigration of timothy archer and 1860 01:29:23,790 --> 01:29:20,500 was about his relationship with a with 1861 01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:23,800 his Bishop Bishop Pike who was quite 1862 01:29:28,740 --> 01:29:27,010 famous and a very you know a an 1863 01:29:32,189 --> 01:29:28,750 outstanding person in the civil rights 1864 01:29:34,229 --> 01:29:32,199 movement who died under tragic 1865 01:29:36,629 --> 01:29:34,239 circumstances as a lot of the great 1866 01:29:40,209 --> 01:29:36,639 civil rights leaders did although this 1867 01:29:43,239 --> 01:29:40,219 was a somewhat different 1868 01:29:44,799 --> 01:29:43,249 for death you know what we should do 1869 01:29:47,649 --> 01:29:44,809 here since we're mentioning movies in 1870 01:29:49,839 --> 01:29:47,659 relationship to philip k dick there is a 1871 01:29:52,779 --> 01:29:49,849 question about movies from one of our 1872 01:29:55,120 --> 01:29:52,789 regular listeners Blowfish where he asks 1873 01:29:56,919 --> 01:29:55,130 and it's a different kind of movie and 1874 01:29:58,479 --> 01:29:56,929 i'll pose the question in this segment 1875 01:30:00,279 --> 01:29:58,489 and then we'll go to our next segment 1876 01:30:03,009 --> 01:30:00,289 and have you answer it you have a few 1877 01:30:06,399 --> 01:30:03,019 questions from our listeners all your 1878 01:30:08,350 --> 01:30:06,409 thoughts on coming new Star Trek movies 1879 01:30:10,540 --> 01:30:08,360 compared to the older versions I guess 1880 01:30:13,419 --> 01:30:10,550 that is an alternate reality kind of 1881 01:30:15,969 --> 01:30:13,429 thing where they reinvented Star Trek 1882 01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:15,979 but Star Trek happens in an altered 1883 01:30:20,529 --> 01:30:18,650 universe because of what the Romulans 1884 01:30:23,290 --> 01:30:20,539 had done we all know what happened there 1885 01:30:25,629 --> 01:30:23,300 so your reaction to that we have Alan 1886 01:30:28,089 --> 01:30:25,639 Greenfield joining us this week I'm gene 1887 01:30:38,180 --> 01:30:28,099 Steinberg and of course you're in the 1888 01:30:44,970 --> 01:30:41,790 the GC and radio network providing the 1889 01:30:49,500 --> 01:30:44,980 world with hard-hitting talk radio G C 1890 01:30:52,020 --> 01:30:49,510 and great talk radio starts here hey 1891 01:30:53,640 --> 01:30:52,030 neighbors meetings are an essential part 1892 01:30:55,859 --> 01:30:53,650 of any business you know making 1893 01:30:57,810 --> 01:30:55,869 presentations to clients collaborating 1894 01:31:00,510 --> 01:30:57,820 with your colleagues will make them as 1895 01:31:03,780 --> 01:31:00,520 simple as possible to run and organize 1896 01:31:06,209 --> 01:31:03,790 use go to meeting by Citrix the easiest 1897 01:31:08,040 --> 01:31:06,219 most reliable online meeting service 1898 01:31:10,680 --> 01:31:08,050 with go to meeting you can schedule an 1899 01:31:12,780 --> 01:31:10,690 online meeting incentives attendees can 1900 01:31:14,939 --> 01:31:12,790 join with just a click from anywhere 1901 01:31:17,550 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Santa Rosa where a nicely 1916 01:32:00,640 --> 01:31:58,190 furnished cabin with all amenities Wi-Fi 1917 01:32:03,250 --> 01:32:00,650 executive food and wine and laundry 1918 01:32:06,610 --> 01:32:03,260 service awaits after a good night's 1919 01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:06,620 sleep your adventure begins you're on a 1920 01:32:13,630 --> 01:32:10,610 golden stag Safari for big game but it's 1921 01:32:16,180 --> 01:32:13,640 not Africa its Argentina one on one 1922 01:32:19,540 --> 01:32:16,190 guided hunts for water buffalo cougar 1923 01:32:22,480 --> 01:32:19,550 Bighorn Rams wild boar and the biggest 1924 01:32:25,090 --> 01:32:22,490 stag deer and South America all gold 1925 01:32:28,810 --> 01:32:25,100 medal quality all the action you can 1926 01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:28,820 handle land rovers talking rental guns 1927 01:32:33,940 --> 01:32:31,730 with scopes all food beverages hunting 1928 01:32:36,430 --> 01:32:33,950 guides ground transportation included 1929 01:32:39,250 --> 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three six six three or go to 1957 01:33:49,300 --> 01:33:45,770 freeze-dry guy.com 1958 01:33:51,620 --> 01:33:49,310 100% veteran-owned the freeze-dried guy 1959 01:33:54,950 --> 01:33:51,630 so it's often grandma's house for the 1960 01:33:56,570 --> 01:33:54,960 holidays eh that's great but while 1961 01:33:57,320 --> 01:33:56,580 you're going over the river and through 1962 01:33:59,630 --> 01:33:57,330 the woods 1963 01:34:02,390 --> 01:33:59,640 professional burglars are choosing easy 1964 01:34:06,110 --> 01:34:02,400 targets to break into don't be an easy 1965 01:34:07,729 --> 01:34:06,120 target plug in fake TV full criminals 1966 01:34:09,140 --> 01:34:07,739 into believing someone's home at your 1967 01:34:11,510 --> 01:34:09,150 house watching TV 1968 01:34:14,150 --> 01:34:11,520 fake TV works a bit like a light on a 1969 01:34:16,850 --> 01:34:14,160 timer but fake TV is far more convincing 1970 01:34:19,040 --> 01:34:16,860 fake TV plugs into any outlet and 1971 01:34:21,590 --> 01:34:19,050 simulates the light and colors of a real 1972 01:34:23,330 --> 01:34:21,600 TV burglars will likely move on to 1973 01:34:26,209 --> 01:34:23,340 easier targets and leave your house 1974 01:34:28,190 --> 01:34:26,219 alone fake TV cost less than a month of 1975 01:34:30,530 --> 01:34:28,200 most alarm monitoring plans and makes a 1976 01:34:32,030 --> 01:34:30,540 great Christmas gift or it's perfect if 1977 01:34:34,670 --> 01:34:32,040 you're traveling over the holidays or 1978 01:34:37,640 --> 01:34:34,680 any time order your fake TV by calling 1979 01:34:40,459 --> 01:34:37,650 eight seven seven five eight TV or go to 1980 01:34:43,070 --> 01:34:40,469 fete tv.com that's eight seven seven 1981 01:34:47,060 --> 01:34:43,080 five three two five three eight eight or 1982 01:34:53,560 --> 01:34:47,070 fete tv.com fake TV the burglar 1983 01:34:59,750 --> 01:34:56,540 this is Jacques Vallee are you listening 1984 01:35:07,160 --> 01:34:59,760 to the podcast the gold standard of 1985 01:35:09,229 --> 01:35:07,170 paranormal radio live long and prosper 1986 01:35:11,840 --> 01:35:09,239 because Allen Greenfields among us and 1987 01:35:14,690 --> 01:35:11,850 one of our listeners I don't know why 1988 01:35:17,000 --> 01:35:14,700 they ask this question but I'll raise it 1989 01:35:19,850 --> 01:35:17,010 again so the first question Allen is 1990 01:35:23,240 --> 01:35:19,860 were you a Trekkie or are you a Trekkie 1991 01:35:26,780 --> 01:35:23,250 no I was main what they would call an SF 1992 01:35:29,450 --> 01:35:26,790 fan in in the days of the first Star 1993 01:35:32,479 --> 01:35:29,460 Trek and we kind of looked down on the 1994 01:35:35,570 --> 01:35:32,489 Trekkies in fact the term Trekkie was a 1995 01:35:39,190 --> 01:35:35,580 pejorative to show how far back in that 1996 01:35:41,150 --> 01:35:39,200 area I go we had a guy in southern 1997 01:35:43,790 --> 01:35:41,160 fandom that is people who were 1998 01:35:46,760 --> 01:35:43,800 interested in science fiction and comics 1999 01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:46,770 and other things of that sort there was 2000 01:35:51,860 --> 01:35:49,170 a guy whose nickname was Trekkie because 2001 01:35:54,940 --> 01:35:51,870 he was the only one and of course that 2002 01:35:58,550 --> 01:35:54,950 exploded it into a very big thing in 2003 01:36:01,250 --> 01:35:58,560 retrospect I consider the the original 2004 01:36:04,160 --> 01:36:01,260 Star Trek to be a real gem in terms of 2005 01:36:06,940 --> 01:36:04,170 the relative order of science fiction on 2006 01:36:10,610 --> 01:36:06,950 television and its subsequent 2007 01:36:16,070 --> 01:36:10,620 reincarnation zazz next generations and 2008 01:36:19,010 --> 01:36:16,080 Deep Space 9 etc etc all have a lot of 2009 01:36:22,400 --> 01:36:19,020 merit but I consider them to be kind of 2010 01:36:24,080 --> 01:36:22,410 future idealistic nuts-and-bolts science 2011 01:36:27,410 --> 01:36:24,090 fiction I must say after Gene 2012 01:36:31,459 --> 01:36:27,420 Roddenberry passed away it's it became 2013 01:36:35,750 --> 01:36:31,469 more of war in space and less of the 2014 01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:35,760 idealistic reflection of international 2015 01:36:40,820 --> 01:36:38,010 cooperation and non-intervention 2016 01:36:44,150 --> 01:36:40,830 something we can learn a lot from in 2017 01:36:47,180 --> 01:36:44,160 terms of Afghanistan Iraq and other 2018 01:36:48,590 --> 01:36:47,190 horror stories of the modern world well 2019 01:36:51,110 --> 01:36:48,600 the only thing of course is a Star Trek 2020 01:36:53,959 --> 01:36:51,120 also was a money-making machine well 2021 01:36:55,520 --> 01:36:53,969 therefore they made this series hoping 2022 01:36:57,200 --> 01:36:55,530 they get seven years out of each one 2023 01:36:59,000 --> 01:36:57,210 which didn't happen with Star Trek 2024 01:37:01,730 --> 01:36:59,010 Enterprise but that's another story all 2025 01:37:03,770 --> 01:37:01,740 right so the original Star Trek the 2026 01:37:08,030 --> 01:37:03,780 concept I get here is after Gene 2027 01:37:11,120 --> 01:37:08,040 Roddenberry died it shall we say altered 2028 01:37:13,580 --> 01:37:11,130 the concept a little bit alright a lot I 2029 01:37:16,610 --> 01:37:13,590 would say okay so the concept is altered 2030 01:37:19,280 --> 01:37:16,620 it's not what maybe a hundred percent of 2031 01:37:22,010 --> 01:37:19,290 what Roddenberry had expect or 2032 01:37:24,260 --> 01:37:22,020 anticipate or envisioned in his Star 2033 01:37:27,020 --> 01:37:24,270 Trek concept and of course he was around 2034 01:37:28,760 --> 01:37:27,030 during the first years of next 2035 01:37:30,830 --> 01:37:28,770 generation don't know if he died before 2036 01:37:32,720 --> 01:37:30,840 that series ended or after so we have a 2037 01:37:34,190 --> 01:37:32,730 new generation here now I'll give you 2038 01:37:36,740 --> 01:37:34,200 one comment about the new generation of 2039 01:37:39,200 --> 01:37:36,750 Star Trek and that is they took 2040 01:37:40,700 --> 01:37:39,210 advantage of their budget because in 2041 01:37:42,380 --> 01:37:40,710 almost every scene you see people 2042 01:37:45,380 --> 01:37:42,390 running all over the ship you know it's 2043 01:37:47,240 --> 01:37:45,390 a huge spaceship big enterprise so how 2044 01:37:51,500 --> 01:37:47,250 do you show how huge it is you have 2045 01:37:53,780 --> 01:37:51,510 people running oh for the level of first 2046 01:37:56,170 --> 01:37:53,790 of all it didn't get really good breaks 2047 01:37:59,510 --> 01:37:56,180 from the network which I think was NBC 2048 01:38:02,830 --> 01:37:59,520 so with what the original Star Trek as 2049 01:38:06,050 --> 01:38:02,840 opposed to the JJ Abrams movie go ahead 2050 01:38:10,480 --> 01:38:06,060 yeah right the movies I'm not as 2051 01:38:14,480 --> 01:38:10,490 familiar with I have seen I would say 2052 01:38:17,090 --> 01:38:14,490 spottily mmm the majority of them but 2053 01:38:20,150 --> 01:38:17,100 they none of them struck me as they all 2054 01:38:21,890 --> 01:38:20,160 struck me as technically bigger and 2055 01:38:25,250 --> 01:38:21,900 better but bigger and better is not 2056 01:38:27,890 --> 01:38:25,260 always better and I don't think you 2057 01:38:31,010 --> 01:38:27,900 really have better science fiction until 2058 01:38:33,620 --> 01:38:31,020 the reimagined Battlestar Galactica 2059 01:38:39,290 --> 01:38:33,630 which I absolutely loved and thought 2060 01:38:41,600 --> 01:38:39,300 that was took a really dorky 1970s 2061 01:38:43,850 --> 01:38:41,610 science fiction project and turned it 2062 01:38:45,950 --> 01:38:43,860 into something that was the kind of 2063 01:38:48,650 --> 01:38:45,960 science fiction I generally like best 2064 01:38:51,710 --> 01:38:48,660 which is a way of looking at our own 2065 01:38:55,010 --> 01:38:51,720 world from a removed vantage point and 2066 01:38:57,530 --> 01:38:55,020 thus seeing our virtues and our flaws 2067 01:39:01,040 --> 01:38:57,540 and the best possible light but that's 2068 01:39:05,030 --> 01:39:01,050 still mostly a nuts and bolts approach 2069 01:39:07,010 --> 01:39:05,040 and in general although they had that 2070 01:39:09,920 --> 01:39:07,020 they touched on alternate realities and 2071 01:39:12,290 --> 01:39:09,930 they certainly touched on alternate ways 2072 01:39:15,730 --> 01:39:12,300 of getting around the universe a lot I 2073 01:39:17,980 --> 01:39:15,740 mean Deep Space 9 was about one of those 2074 01:39:20,110 --> 01:39:17,990 places that you could go from one part 2075 01:39:24,010 --> 01:39:20,120 of the universe to another and roam 2076 01:39:25,930 --> 01:39:24,020 whole in fact the TV series Farscape 2077 01:39:28,600 --> 01:39:25,940 don't know if you saw that yeah it was 2078 01:39:31,300 --> 01:39:28,610 one where a couple of the stars were 2079 01:39:34,540 --> 01:39:31,310 actually Muppets oh yeah that was a 2080 01:39:36,610 --> 01:39:34,550 little hard for me to take but they did 2081 01:39:37,180 --> 01:39:36,620 it given what they were doing they did 2082 01:39:39,910 --> 01:39:37,190 it well 2083 01:39:44,670 --> 01:39:39,920 and again I J so yes very well done I 2084 01:39:47,770 --> 01:39:44,680 liked it the plot was was not 2085 01:39:50,230 --> 01:39:47,780 superficial and one could sometimes 2086 01:39:53,740 --> 01:39:50,240 forget that Muppets were Muppets 2087 01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:53,750 it certainly wasn't Bert and Ernie you 2088 01:39:57,430 --> 01:39:56,090 know so it was they were very well 2089 01:39:59,980 --> 01:39:57,440 developed and I think maybe it was 2090 01:40:05,170 --> 01:39:59,990 unfair to call them up it's there by the 2091 01:40:07,510 --> 01:40:05,180 creators of the Muppets so I'm not a big 2092 01:40:11,740 --> 01:40:07,520 fan of most television science-fiction 2093 01:40:13,900 --> 01:40:11,750 but I think Star Trek as such and that 2094 01:40:15,970 --> 01:40:13,910 means all of the Star Trek including the 2095 01:40:20,050 --> 01:40:15,980 movies and including the various 2096 01:40:22,990 --> 01:40:20,060 versions were a were a breakthrough in 2097 01:40:25,720 --> 01:40:23,000 terms of being something that that went 2098 01:40:32,050 --> 01:40:25,730 beyond well I was just saying that I 2099 01:40:37,120 --> 01:40:32,060 think that Star Trek was not just a an 2100 01:40:40,510 --> 01:40:37,130 advancement in terms of technology but 2101 01:40:42,670 --> 01:40:40,520 in terms of plot line and went way 2102 01:40:46,000 --> 01:40:42,680 beyond the kid science fiction shows 2103 01:40:48,040 --> 01:40:46,010 which were prevalent in the 1960s the 2104 01:40:54,870 --> 01:40:48,050 only exception other than that would be 2105 01:41:00,160 --> 01:40:57,970 Twilight Zone and Outer Limits which was 2106 01:41:03,520 --> 01:41:00,170 only borderline science fiction it was 2107 01:41:07,060 --> 01:41:03,530 mostly a kind of social criticism in an 2108 01:41:09,990 --> 01:41:07,070 eerie setting but the thing about Star 2109 01:41:12,580 --> 01:41:10,000 Trek is Star Trek was written for adults 2110 01:41:15,880 --> 01:41:12,590 that adults can enjoy the show whereas 2111 01:41:18,420 --> 01:41:15,890 watching Space Patrol in the 1950s you 2112 01:41:21,370 --> 01:41:18,430 know it was for kids even Captain video 2113 01:41:23,440 --> 01:41:21,380 all those shows were for kids you always 2114 01:41:27,030 --> 01:41:23,450 assume science fiction had to be for 2115 01:41:29,080 --> 01:41:27,040 someone who was under 12 or 15 yeah 2116 01:41:31,379 --> 01:41:29,090 exactly 2117 01:41:34,060 --> 01:41:31,389 Star Trek kind of turned that on its ear 2118 01:41:37,240 --> 01:41:34,070 and I'm not sure that it was intended to 2119 01:41:41,709 --> 01:41:37,250 but it did and that's the important 2120 01:41:46,390 --> 01:41:41,719 thing and and although it owes a huge 2121 01:41:48,910 --> 01:41:46,400 debt to the great 1950s a science 2122 01:41:53,490 --> 01:41:48,920 fiction movie theatrical movie Forbidden 2123 01:41:56,709 --> 01:41:53,500 Planet and I think I also think that 2124 01:41:59,740 --> 01:41:56,719 William Shatner is Captain Kirk channels 2125 01:42:01,270 --> 01:41:59,750 Leslie Nielsen in Forbidden Planet we 2126 01:42:05,770 --> 01:42:01,280 didn't know that Leslie Nielsen was 2127 01:42:10,720 --> 01:42:05,780 funny then he was a serious actor well 2128 01:42:14,669 --> 01:42:10,730 yeah in the 1950s and he had a surprise 2129 01:42:18,879 --> 01:42:14,679 second career which he did justice to 2130 01:42:20,950 --> 01:42:18,889 straight-faced comedy that is most 2131 01:42:23,979 --> 01:42:20,960 touching he would have but you know 2132 01:42:27,339 --> 01:42:23,989 there's no point at which William 2133 01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:27,349 Shatner ever did Captain Kirk without a 2134 01:42:35,620 --> 01:42:32,570 touch of underlying humor and I think 2135 01:42:38,649 --> 01:42:35,630 that that if you go back and look at it 2136 01:42:40,930 --> 01:42:38,659 with that in mind it was always there so 2137 01:42:43,899 --> 01:42:40,940 in that sense he really did have there 2138 01:42:46,030 --> 01:42:43,909 Leslie Nielsen undertone in him well you 2139 01:42:48,700 --> 01:42:46,040 know when they did that show Boston 2140 01:42:51,129 --> 01:42:48,710 Legal where he played Danny crane you 2141 01:42:54,010 --> 01:42:51,139 knew how funny he was with James Spader 2142 01:42:56,050 --> 01:42:54,020 it had this wonderful rapport let's move 2143 01:42:57,609 --> 01:42:56,060 back to our subject here because we're 2144 01:42:59,800 --> 01:42:57,619 about two-thirds into the show we want 2145 01:43:02,520 --> 01:42:59,810 to get also into your interest in the 2146 01:43:05,950 --> 01:43:02,530 occult and that is with regarding UFOs 2147 01:43:08,770 --> 01:43:05,960 wherever they come from what about 2148 01:43:10,390 --> 01:43:08,780 so-called Close Encounters stories this 2149 01:43:13,899 --> 01:43:10,400 is another question from Blowfish and 2150 01:43:16,870 --> 01:43:13,909 the best evidence so we see UFOs in the 2151 01:43:18,339 --> 01:43:16,880 sky but sometimes they're real close and 2152 01:43:21,790 --> 01:43:18,349 sometimes we see the beings and 2153 01:43:23,439 --> 01:43:21,800 sometimes as beings want to take us what 2154 01:43:27,450 --> 01:43:23,449 do you think any real evidence for that 2155 01:43:31,330 --> 01:43:27,460 or is this all some kind of mind trick 2156 01:43:33,310 --> 01:43:31,340 yes and yes I don't think that it's a 2157 01:43:39,960 --> 01:43:33,320 trick but I think that it that it does 2158 01:43:42,330 --> 01:43:39,970 involve the same kind of experience that 2159 01:43:46,290 --> 01:43:42,340 that one would encounter in the 2160 01:43:50,040 --> 01:43:46,300 varieties of religious experience in in 2161 01:43:53,540 --> 01:43:50,050 fact and in folklore about abduction by 2162 01:43:57,320 --> 01:43:53,550 elves or I was just talking today about 2163 01:44:01,050 --> 01:43:57,330 with my son Randall about halflings and 2164 01:44:04,080 --> 01:44:01,060 we have throughout human history these 2165 01:44:07,080 --> 01:44:04,090 notions of people being taken away under 2166 01:44:10,050 --> 01:44:07,090 a mountain to a mountain even I 2167 01:44:12,270 --> 01:44:10,060 interviewed a guy who without realizing 2168 01:44:14,280 --> 01:44:12,280 it though he was doing a UFO story Ralph 2169 01:44:16,620 --> 01:44:14,290 Leigh Ellis who I'm talking about this 2170 01:44:19,800 --> 01:44:16,630 was in Brown Mountain lights right right 2171 01:44:22,110 --> 01:44:19,810 right that's city near where the 2172 01:44:23,940 --> 01:44:22,120 mountain was located we interviewed 2173 01:44:26,940 --> 01:44:23,950 somebody who claimed to have met these 2174 01:44:29,640 --> 01:44:26,950 entities well whether he did or didn't 2175 01:44:34,590 --> 01:44:29,650 is a less interest to me then that his 2176 01:44:37,470 --> 01:44:34,600 story resemble old European folklore 2177 01:44:40,440 --> 01:44:37,480 about being taken into the venusberg or 2178 01:44:42,870 --> 01:44:40,450 fairy Hill or whatever in so much detail 2179 01:44:44,550 --> 01:44:42,880 that I find it nearly impossible to 2180 01:44:46,770 --> 01:44:44,560 believe that it doesn't come from the 2181 01:44:50,280 --> 01:44:46,780 same source whether he dreamed it up I 2182 01:44:51,960 --> 01:44:50,290 had this bizarre experience the guy 2183 01:44:54,450 --> 01:44:51,970 showing up at my hotel room and telling 2184 01:44:56,490 --> 01:44:54,460 me that lael was somebody I don't even 2185 01:44:58,050 --> 01:44:56,500 know how I found my hotel room but you 2186 01:45:00,480 --> 01:44:58,060 know maybe he was a man in black who 2187 01:45:04,050 --> 01:45:00,490 knows but it was a small town and I 2188 01:45:05,610 --> 01:45:04,060 imagine news travels quickly but he said 2189 01:45:06,450 --> 01:45:05,620 you know you don't need to be fooling 2190 01:45:11,070 --> 01:45:06,460 around with Ralph 2191 01:45:13,740 --> 01:45:11,080 lael I said why is that alright so we 2192 01:45:17,220 --> 01:45:13,750 have Ralph flail we have alan greenfield 2193 01:45:25,840 --> 01:45:17,230 we have a possible man in black more to 2194 01:45:31,240 --> 01:45:29,020 [Music] 2195 01:45:34,630 --> 01:45:31,250 America's number one source for 2196 01:45:39,920 --> 01:45:34,640 independent talk radio for over a decade 2197 01:45:41,720 --> 01:45:39,930 we are the gcn radio network hi this is 2198 01:45:43,910 --> 01:45:41,730 Ted Anderson if you'd like to listen to 2199 01:45:46,550 --> 01:45:43,920 GCN programs on the goal I have great 2200 01:45:48,770 --> 01:45:46,560 news GCM has created a Droid and iPhone 2201 01:45:51,080 --> 01:45:48,780 application and it's free just as easy 2202 01:45:52,970 --> 01:45:51,090 as going to GC and live.com click on the 2203 01:45:54,380 --> 01:45:52,980 banner and download before you know it 2204 01:45:56,420 --> 01:45:54,390 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--> 01:46:22,020 stating a central bank issuing the 2219 01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:23,670 public currency is a greater menace to 2220 01:46:26,540 --> 01:46:24,810 the liberties of the people than a 2221 01:46:27,620 --> 01:46:26,550 standing army Ted Anderson I'm placing a 2222 01:46:29,720 --> 01:46:27,630 free silver dollar in a book that 2223 01:46:32,990 --> 01:46:29,730 explains our monetary system call for 2224 01:46:36,080 --> 01:46:33,000 your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time to 2225 01:46:41,270 --> 01:46:36,090 understand the system call 866 to 237 2226 01:46:43,310 --> 01:46:41,280 that's 800 686 to 237 we all know that 2227 01:46:44,900 --> 01:46:43,320 berkey water purification systems are 2228 01:46:46,910 --> 01:46:44,910 the most trusted name in water 2229 01:46:48,770 --> 01:46:46,920 filtration as an authorized Berkey 2230 01:46:50,780 --> 01:46:48,780 dealer for over 6 years in serving 2231 01:46:53,210 --> 01:46:50,790 thousands of satisfied customers the 2232 01:46:55,220 --> 01:46:53,220 Berkey guy offers amazing specials for 2233 01:46:56,810 --> 01:46:55,230 berkey water filtration systems the 2234 01:46:58,880 --> 01:46:56,820 Berkey light systems include a set of 2235 01:47:00,860 --> 01:46:58,890 self-sterilizing and re cleanable black 2236 01:47:03,290 --> 01:47:00,870 purification elements that purify water 2237 01:47:05,510 --> 01:47:03,300 by removing chlorine pathogenic bacteria 2238 01:47:07,730 --> 01:47:05,520 cysts and parasites two non detectable 2239 01:47:09,770 --> 01:47:07,740 levels and remove harmful chemicals such 2240 01:47:11,630 --> 01:47:09,780 as herbicides and pesticides order the 2241 01:47:13,490 --> 01:47:11,640 Berkey light system today complete with 2242 01:47:15,080 --> 01:47:13,500 two black per key elements for only two 2243 01:47:17,000 --> 01:47:15,090 hundred and thirty one dollars and the 2244 01:47:18,680 --> 01:47:17,010 Berkey guy will ship your order free of 2245 01:47:20,840 --> 01:47:18,690 charge with the purchase of a per key 2246 01:47:22,940 --> 01:47:20,850 light the Berkey guy is also offering is 2247 01:47:25,790 --> 01:47:22,950 set of fluoride and arsenic filters for 2248 01:47:26,600 --> 01:47:25,800 only $39.99 that's over 30 percent off 2249 01:47:28,700 --> 01:47:26,610 the retail price 2250 01:47:31,130 --> 01:47:28,710 call the Berkey guy at one eight seven 2251 01:47:33,260 --> 01:47:31,140 seven eight eight six three six five 2252 01:47:36,020 --> 01:47:33,270 three that's one eight seven seven eight 2253 01:47:38,630 --> 01:47:36,030 eight six three six five three or order 2254 01:47:46,510 --> 01:47:38,640 online at go Berkey com that's Gober 2255 01:47:54,520 --> 01:47:50,209 welcome back to the para cast the gold 2256 01:48:00,760 --> 01:47:54,530 standard of paranormal radio and now 2257 01:48:05,300 --> 01:48:03,410 we have Alan Greenfield joining us this 2258 01:48:07,479 --> 01:48:05,310 week in the para cast Chris O'Brien is 2259 01:48:09,770 --> 01:48:07,489 taking the night off we started with all 2260 01:48:10,700 --> 01:48:09,780 realities alternate viewpoints of the 2261 01:48:12,800 --> 01:48:10,710 UFO and Eggman 2262 01:48:15,260 --> 01:48:12,810 and we're talking here about the Brown 2263 01:48:16,910 --> 01:48:15,270 Mountain lights where they see these 2264 01:48:19,400 --> 01:48:16,920 lights in the top of the hill and this 2265 01:48:23,510 --> 01:48:19,410 character who lived in the sea near by 2266 01:48:28,340 --> 01:48:23,520 Ralph Alejo and his encounters right 2267 01:48:31,750 --> 01:48:28,350 well I went to brown Mountain to do some 2268 01:48:36,650 --> 01:48:31,760 fairly thorough investigations twice 2269 01:48:38,810 --> 01:48:36,660 once with you and Geneva and let's see 2270 01:48:41,620 --> 01:48:38,820 who else was with us at the time there 2271 01:48:44,390 --> 01:48:41,630 was someone else with us but it is 2272 01:48:47,209 --> 01:48:44,400 skipped my mind and on another occasion 2273 01:48:50,120 --> 01:48:47,219 in which I can date exactly because it 2274 01:48:53,030 --> 01:48:50,130 was the day that Apollo 8 circled the 2275 01:48:57,320 --> 01:48:53,040 moon but was Christmas Eve with Jim 2276 01:49:01,550 --> 01:48:57,330 Mosely and little Betty Mosely and Tim 2277 01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:01,560 Beckley and it was on that occasion I 2278 01:49:09,890 --> 01:49:06,570 had again gone and talked to Leo and I 2279 01:49:13,340 --> 01:49:09,900 was in my hotel room this man comes to 2280 01:49:14,450 --> 01:49:13,350 knocks on my door well-dressed guy sort 2281 01:49:17,390 --> 01:49:14,460 of nondescript 2282 01:49:21,320 --> 01:49:17,400 not looking like trouble not having a 2283 01:49:24,170 --> 01:49:21,330 southern drawl at all unusual in that 2284 01:49:25,729 --> 01:49:24,180 part of the universe he comes in sits 2285 01:49:27,020 --> 01:49:25,739 down I don't remember what else we 2286 01:49:29,090 --> 01:49:27,030 talked about but at some point he 2287 01:49:31,700 --> 01:49:29,100 started talking about Ralph Lael and he 2288 01:49:34,910 --> 01:49:31,710 said you really shouldn't be dealing 2289 01:49:36,020 --> 01:49:34,920 with this guy he's a moonshiner and I 2290 01:49:39,860 --> 01:49:36,030 said oh really 2291 01:49:43,580 --> 01:49:39,870 that's interesting like well if he's a 2292 01:49:45,170 --> 01:49:43,590 moonshiner I suppose I shouldn't be but 2293 01:49:48,170 --> 01:49:45,180 why are you telling me this because that 2294 01:49:51,650 --> 01:49:48,180 doesn't necessarily bear on you know his 2295 01:49:53,270 --> 01:49:51,660 experiences on the planet P WOM or under 2296 01:49:58,220 --> 01:49:53,280 the mountain which is where he claimed 2297 01:49:58,979 --> 01:49:58,230 he was was taken and this guy left and 2298 01:50:00,479 --> 01:49:58,989 at the time I 2299 01:50:01,560 --> 01:50:00,489 didn't think it was that's strange and 2300 01:50:04,319 --> 01:50:01,570 then I realized how do you know where I 2301 01:50:07,109 --> 01:50:04,329 was who I was and what was his purpose 2302 01:50:09,629 --> 01:50:07,119 in being there I have no idea whatsoever 2303 01:50:12,450 --> 01:50:09,639 but the point I was really trying to get 2304 01:50:17,700 --> 01:50:12,460 to was Lael story resembles a gazillion 2305 01:50:22,910 --> 01:50:17,710 stories not involving UFOs but involving 2306 01:50:26,790 --> 01:50:22,920 abduction by elves fairies angels demons 2307 01:50:29,040 --> 01:50:26,800 etc throughout human history and the UFO 2308 01:50:31,529 --> 01:50:29,050 abduction stories are of the same 2309 01:50:33,299 --> 01:50:31,539 variety some are transformative events 2310 01:50:37,259 --> 01:50:33,309 they even resemble near-death 2311 01:50:39,899 --> 01:50:37,269 experiences in their and their format 2312 01:50:43,189 --> 01:50:39,909 and I'm not sure that religious 2313 01:50:47,189 --> 01:50:43,199 experiences spiritual experiences 2314 01:50:49,379 --> 01:50:47,199 experiences with out of folklore with 2315 01:50:52,290 --> 01:50:49,389 elves and fairies taking you to Magana 2316 01:50:54,180 --> 01:50:52,300 or under the venusberg in in germany or 2317 01:50:56,239 --> 01:50:54,190 wherever it happens to be our 2318 01:51:00,810 --> 01:50:56,249 underground mountain in North Carolina 2319 01:51:02,669 --> 01:51:00,820 are are talking about except in in terms 2320 01:51:04,919 --> 01:51:02,679 of the window dressing so to speak 2321 01:51:07,500 --> 01:51:04,929 anything that is any different one from 2322 01:51:10,529 --> 01:51:07,510 the other Whitley Strieber is sort of I 2323 01:51:13,200 --> 01:51:10,539 got at that in his first book and then 2324 01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:13,210 sort of I guess wandered away from that 2325 01:51:18,870 --> 01:51:15,610 but that there are an endless number of 2326 01:51:22,709 --> 01:51:18,880 masks that you never really get beyond 2327 01:51:25,500 --> 01:51:22,719 because these encounters are not as 2328 01:51:28,229 --> 01:51:25,510 material as they seem to be if you live 2329 01:51:30,870 --> 01:51:28,239 in a world that expects lots of flashing 2330 01:51:33,540 --> 01:51:30,880 lights and saucer shaped vehicles and 2331 01:51:35,399 --> 01:51:33,550 gray beings that's what you're going to 2332 01:51:36,989 --> 01:51:35,409 see but it's not any different from 2333 01:51:39,689 --> 01:51:36,999 being taken into the Hall of the 2334 01:51:42,089 --> 01:51:39,699 mountain Kings and and having coasts 2335 01:51:43,830 --> 01:51:42,099 with the elves and the elves being 2336 01:51:46,290 --> 01:51:43,840 curious about your life and you're 2337 01:51:49,770 --> 01:51:46,300 coming out with a loss of time and and 2338 01:51:53,069 --> 01:51:49,780 sense of location and worldliness and 2339 01:51:55,350 --> 01:51:53,079 perhaps be transformed for life in terms 2340 01:51:57,060 --> 01:51:55,360 of who you are and how you are and how 2341 01:51:59,819 --> 01:51:57,070 you see the world I think these are 2342 01:52:02,189 --> 01:51:59,829 crossovers between reality some of them 2343 01:52:05,069 --> 01:52:02,199 are spontaneous some of them are from 2344 01:52:08,310 --> 01:52:05,079 realities that are apparently more able 2345 01:52:11,059 --> 01:52:08,320 than we generally are and this is a good 2346 01:52:14,000 --> 01:52:11,069 segue to the occult part of this 2347 01:52:17,029 --> 01:52:14,010 more able than we are to actually go 2348 01:52:20,989 --> 01:52:17,039 from one state of reality to another and 2349 01:52:24,289 --> 01:52:20,999 then perhaps return to the other reality 2350 01:52:27,319 --> 01:52:24,299 sometimes all right so you think that 2351 01:52:29,059 --> 01:52:27,329 this is all what's happening with 2352 01:52:32,059 --> 01:52:29,069 abductions except for those of course 2353 01:52:34,729 --> 01:52:32,069 there aren't just mental issues well I'm 2354 01:52:38,029 --> 01:52:34,739 not I'm not even sure that schizophrenia 2355 01:52:40,520 --> 01:52:38,039 is a disease and not see more of reality 2356 01:52:43,669 --> 01:52:40,530 and not being able to process it than 2357 01:52:46,969 --> 01:52:43,679 most of us see most of the time people 2358 01:52:49,549 --> 01:52:46,979 that are able to process it are called 2359 01:52:52,809 --> 01:52:49,559 prophets and Oracle's people that aren't 2360 01:52:56,389 --> 01:52:52,819 able to function with that additional 2361 01:52:59,239 --> 01:52:56,399 sense of reality they're now they're 2362 01:53:00,409 --> 01:52:59,249 they're called crazy and crackpots and 2363 01:53:02,270 --> 01:53:00,419 they eventually become out of 2364 01:53:04,729 --> 01:53:02,280 frustration they become crackpot 2365 01:53:06,349 --> 01:53:04,739 sometimes dangerous crackpots well of 2366 01:53:08,000 --> 01:53:06,359 course we have Richard shaver who was 2367 01:53:10,399 --> 01:53:08,010 supposedly hospitalized from mental 2368 01:53:12,500 --> 01:53:10,409 problems and he had this other reality 2369 01:53:15,889 --> 01:53:12,510 experience but he was in contact with 2370 01:53:18,709 --> 01:53:15,899 beings or entities called D rose and T 2371 01:53:22,369 --> 01:53:18,719 rose and his particular case maybe the 2372 01:53:25,489 --> 01:53:22,379 caves were in another reality did you 2373 01:53:27,559 --> 01:53:25,499 ever meet Schafer never met shaver but I 2374 01:53:28,939 --> 01:53:27,569 had extensive correspondence with him 2375 01:53:31,789 --> 01:53:28,949 and of course I met 2376 01:53:34,309 --> 01:53:31,799 Palmer who thought exactly that and you 2377 01:53:37,579 --> 01:53:34,319 and I were there at the same time that 2378 01:53:40,159 --> 01:53:37,589 was Jim and you the people that were the 2379 01:53:42,339 --> 01:53:40,169 victimized by NICAP we were invited at 2380 01:53:46,039 --> 01:53:42,349 that point and took advantage of it and 2381 01:53:51,859 --> 01:53:46,049 you and I think we're Kilburg and Jim 2382 01:53:53,509 --> 01:53:51,869 Mosley and and I went up to see Ray 2383 01:53:56,149 --> 01:53:53,519 Palmer but I don't think we ever 2384 01:53:59,539 --> 01:53:56,159 discussed much about about shaver I know 2385 01:54:01,039 --> 01:53:59,549 that my interviewed him and we did 2386 01:54:03,199 --> 01:54:01,049 discuss shaver in the course of that 2387 01:54:05,149 --> 01:54:03,209 interview and that's where he said that 2388 01:54:07,339 --> 01:54:05,159 during the years he said he was in the 2389 01:54:09,500 --> 01:54:07,349 caverns he was physically in a mental 2390 01:54:12,909 --> 01:54:09,510 institution and of course shaver took 2391 01:54:16,250 --> 01:54:12,919 issue with that wouldn't matter to me if 2392 01:54:17,089 --> 01:54:16,260 if I'm communicating at all what I'm 2393 01:54:22,369 --> 01:54:17,099 thinking 2394 01:54:24,470 --> 01:54:22,379 a person who has well first of all 2395 01:54:26,510 --> 01:54:24,480 modern psychiatry is 2396 01:54:28,400 --> 01:54:26,520 much more oriented towards the notion of 2397 01:54:31,040 --> 01:54:28,410 functional and dysfunctional because 2398 01:54:35,420 --> 01:54:31,050 people who have been great artists great 2399 01:54:38,750 --> 01:54:35,430 scientists are also kind of nutty people 2400 01:54:41,660 --> 01:54:38,760 in terms of your everyday person but you 2401 01:54:47,690 --> 01:54:41,670 know very very far beyond them it goes 2402 01:54:50,360 --> 01:54:47,700 with the turf of what kind of mental set 2403 01:54:53,660 --> 01:54:50,370 that you have but the real determinant 2404 01:54:56,210 --> 01:54:53,670 of quotes saying and quote insane is are 2405 01:54:58,220 --> 01:54:56,220 you functional in your day-to-day life 2406 01:55:00,770 --> 01:54:58,230 do you know to look both ways when you 2407 01:55:03,680 --> 01:55:00,780 cross the street or not it doesn't 2408 01:55:06,710 --> 01:55:03,690 matter whether you see the street as 2409 01:55:10,370 --> 01:55:06,720 orange dayglo and everybody else sees 2410 01:55:12,320 --> 01:55:10,380 that as gray concrete or not so much as 2411 01:55:13,910 --> 01:55:12,330 it matters that you understand that if 2412 01:55:15,830 --> 01:55:13,920 you don't look both ways and there's 2413 01:55:17,530 --> 01:55:15,840 traffic coming you're going to get 2414 01:55:22,160 --> 01:55:17,540 killed 2415 01:55:24,170 --> 01:55:22,170 so the the the notion of insanity since 2416 01:55:28,300 --> 01:55:24,180 really since the the drug 2417 01:55:31,090 --> 01:55:28,310 experimentation in the 1960s and Beyond 2418 01:55:36,020 --> 01:55:31,100 along with a younger generation of 2419 01:55:40,610 --> 01:55:36,030 mental health professionals has kind of 2420 01:55:43,400 --> 01:55:40,620 changed the the view of what that would 2421 01:55:45,710 --> 01:55:43,410 imply people got put into uh I don't 2422 01:55:47,660 --> 01:55:45,720 know if you've seen the the TV series I 2423 01:55:49,390 --> 01:55:47,670 like it very much American Horror Story 2424 01:55:53,210 --> 01:55:49,400 and this year it's American Horror Story 2425 01:55:56,810 --> 01:55:53,220 Asylum but it's about people being put 2426 01:56:01,910 --> 01:55:56,820 into a really bad nineteen six early 2427 01:56:04,700 --> 01:56:01,920 1960s Asylum which a lot of both old-age 2428 01:56:07,220 --> 01:56:04,710 homes and mental health facilities were 2429 01:56:09,230 --> 01:56:07,230 at that time and one of the people that 2430 01:56:11,900 --> 01:56:09,240 was there was there because she was a 2431 01:56:14,240 --> 01:56:11,910 lesbian because at that time that was 2432 01:56:16,220 --> 01:56:14,250 considered to be a serious mental 2433 01:56:18,950 --> 01:56:16,230 disorder and I mean you know times 2434 01:56:21,260 --> 01:56:18,960 change and what is defined as crazy and 2435 01:56:23,420 --> 01:56:21,270 what is defined is not crazy differs 2436 01:56:27,170 --> 01:56:23,430 with the time there's no doubt in my 2437 01:56:30,140 --> 01:56:27,180 mind that shaver was a quote crazy guy 2438 01:56:33,140 --> 01:56:30,150 but then so was Salvador Dali one was a 2439 01:56:37,790 --> 01:56:33,150 famous artist the other was 2440 01:56:41,120 --> 01:56:37,800 uh a guy who had his 15 minutes and was 2441 01:56:44,540 --> 01:56:41,130 generally regarded as a nut I never did 2442 01:56:48,740 --> 01:56:44,550 I I thought of him as as as someone who 2443 01:56:51,140 --> 01:56:48,750 had had his mind in two worlds and was 2444 01:56:53,090 --> 01:56:51,150 ill ADIZ with both I knew shaver 2445 01:56:55,939 --> 01:56:53,100 personally I actually interviewed him I 2446 01:56:58,669 --> 01:56:55,949 met him and when we met him Geneva and I 2447 01:57:01,100 --> 01:56:58,679 I thought it was a perfectly presentable 2448 01:57:04,030 --> 01:57:01,110 friendly person with a subtle sense of 2449 01:57:06,680 --> 01:57:04,040 humor I didn't see a nut there but then 2450 01:57:08,630 --> 01:57:06,690 Who am I the judge right some people 2451 01:57:10,580 --> 01:57:08,640 think that I'm crazy and probably 2452 01:57:12,590 --> 01:57:10,590 they're right but here we are and that's 2453 01:57:14,689 --> 01:57:12,600 what we have this radio show we have so 2454 01:57:17,479 --> 01:57:14,699 much more to get to with Alan and you 2455 01:57:20,419 --> 01:57:17,489 know anytime we have Alan Greenfield on 2456 01:57:22,910 --> 01:57:20,429 we start discussion goes on for a couple 2457 01:57:25,160 --> 01:57:22,920 of hours or so then we think let's do 2458 01:57:27,649 --> 01:57:25,170 another two hours now on Greenfield 2459 01:57:35,870 --> 01:57:27,659 joining gene Steinberg this week you're 2460 01:57:41,270 --> 01:57:38,740 [Music] 2461 01:57:43,550 --> 01:57:41,280 don't complain about your cable bill 2462 01:57:44,120 --> 01:57:43,560 going up and up and up do something 2463 01:57:46,130 --> 01:57:44,130 about it 2464 01:57:49,550 --> 01:57:46,140 grab a pencil and jot down this special 2465 01:57:51,560 --> 01:57:49,560 number 187 seven feet zero for my TV the 2466 01:57:54,470 --> 01:57:51,570 more cable TV rates go up the better 2467 01:57:56,090 --> 01:57:54,480 digital satellite TV looks so disabled 2468 01:57:58,910 --> 01:57:56,100 the cable and get more of your favorite 2469 01:58:00,890 --> 01:57:58,920 channels in 100% digital quality for 2470 01:58:03,560 --> 01:58:00,900 less money call one eight seven seven 2471 01:58:04,850 --> 01:58:03,570 eight zero for my TV right now to sign 2472 01:58:07,760 --> 01:58:04,860 up for packages starting as low as 2473 01:58:09,979 --> 01:58:07,770 $19.99 and up to four rooms and there's 2474 01:58:13,370 --> 01:58:09,989 no equipment to buy that includes your 2475 01:58:15,290 --> 01:58:13,380 free HD TV upgrade your free DVR upgrade 2476 01:58:17,810 --> 01:58:15,300 and your free professional installation 2477 01:58:19,580 --> 01:58:17,820 and the best part the pristine digital 2478 01:58:22,220 --> 01:58:19,590 picture and sound call one eight seven 2479 01:58:22,939 --> 01:58:22,230 seven eight zero for my TV so what are 2480 01:58:24,890 --> 01:58:22,949 you waiting for 2481 01:58:28,100 --> 01:58:24,900 pull out your major credit or debit card 2482 01:58:30,140 --> 01:58:28,110 call 27 seven eight zero for my TV one 2483 01:58:32,810 --> 01:58:30,150 eighty seven seven eight zero for my TV 2484 01:58:36,620 --> 01:58:32,820 disable the cable cut costs and get more 2485 01:58:39,709 --> 01:58:36,630 call 187 17-0 for my TV one eight seven 2486 01:58:41,420 --> 01:58:39,719 seven zero for my TV Merry Christmas 2487 01:58:44,150 --> 01:58:41,430 Peter crash travel from - resources 2488 01:58:46,370 --> 01:58:44,160 today is December 21st 2012 goal for 2489 01:58:47,959 --> 01:58:46,380 this morning at 16 48 20 they one ounce 2490 01:58:52,280 --> 01:58:47,969 gold cougar and can be purchased for 2491 01:58:57,050 --> 01:58:52,290 1689 32 8 44 66 for a half ounce or four 2492 01:59:00,110 --> 01:58:57,060 22 33 for quarter ounce 1689 32 8 44 66 2493 01:59:01,910 --> 01:59:00,120 and four 22 33 hi this is Ted Anderson 2494 01:59:03,890 --> 01:59:01,920 have you ever wondered why banks stock 2495 01:59:06,979 --> 01:59:03,900 brokers investment advisors won't talk 2496 01:59:08,600 --> 01:59:06,989 about gold IRAs wait a sec gold and 2497 01:59:10,160 --> 01:59:08,610 silver is going up while Congress is 2498 01:59:11,840 --> 01:59:10,170 trying to settle on the next debt 2499 01:59:14,840 --> 01:59:11,850 increase and there's no end of this 2500 01:59:16,910 --> 01:59:14,850 madness that old 401 K and IRA can be 2501 01:59:19,670 --> 01:59:16,920 converted into physical gold without tax 2502 01:59:21,950 --> 01:59:19,680 consequences I explained this in my book 2503 01:59:24,050 --> 01:59:21,960 10 reasons to buy gold don't let time 2504 01:59:27,890 --> 01:59:24,060 slip away call for your free copy today 2505 01:59:30,110 --> 01:59:27,900 800 686 2237 get away from that 2506 01:59:34,910 --> 01:59:30,120 Washington spin and get honest answers 2507 01:59:39,839 --> 01:59:34,920 about gold 800 686 22:37 the book is 2508 01:59:42,030 --> 01:59:39,849 free 800 686 22:37 2509 01:59:43,979 --> 01:59:42,040 would it save you time to get the best 2510 01:59:46,140 --> 01:59:43,989 quality water filters and the best 2511 01:59:49,319 --> 01:59:46,150 quality storable foods from one company 2512 01:59:51,810 --> 01:59:49,329 you bet it would and now you can add big 2513 01:59:54,270 --> 01:59:51,820 berkey water filters com big berkey 2514 01:59:56,850 --> 01:59:54,280 water filter products and great tasting 2515 01:59:59,520 --> 01:59:56,860 long-lasting storable wise foods are 2516 02:00:02,100 --> 01:59:59,530 both now available on one website big 2517 02:00:03,899 --> 02:00:02,110 berkey water filters calm wise foods 2518 02:00:06,089 --> 02:00:03,909 ready-to-eat meals are packed in 2519 02:00:08,310 --> 02:00:06,099 airtight nitrogen pouches and come with 2520 02:00:10,500 --> 02:00:08,320 a 25 year shelf life big berkey water 2521 02:00:13,379 --> 02:00:10,510 filters are 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that mean are you ready 2536 02:00:53,550 --> 02:00:51,489 to get as skinny as possible as soon as 2537 02:00:55,620 --> 02:00:53,560 possible as simple as possible and as 2538 02:00:58,229 --> 02:00:55,630 sexy as possible I'm listening and get 2539 02:00:58,919 --> 02:00:58,239 with the ASAP program it's real and it 2540 02:01:00,510 --> 02:00:58,929 works 2541 02:01:03,359 --> 02:01:00,520 no smooth talk knows slick advertising 2542 02:01:06,450 --> 02:01:03,369 and no exaggerated claims of success 2543 02:01:08,640 --> 02:01:06,460 I've got it no more welcome to ASAP as 2544 02:01:11,339 --> 02:01:08,650 slim as possible whether you have ten 2545 02:01:14,069 --> 02:01:11,349 twenty or fifty pounds to lose ASAP is 2546 02:01:15,870 --> 02:01:14,079 your weight loss answer ASAP targets the 2547 02:01:17,520 --> 02:01:15,880 abnormal fat reserves and makes them 2548 02:01:19,859 --> 02:01:17,530 available to be burned as fuel and 2549 02:01:22,410 --> 02:01:19,869 contains no caffeine or hormones order 2550 02:01:23,850 --> 02:01:22,420 ASAP at wholesale prices or join the 2551 02:01:26,790 --> 02:01:23,860 team to share the business with others 2552 02:01:28,709 --> 02:01:26,800 visit GC and team.com or call eight 2553 02:01:32,189 --> 02:01:28,719 seven seven eight seven eight four two 2554 02:01:34,109 --> 02:01:32,199 zero three GCM team.com or call eight 2555 02:01:36,750 --> 02:01:34,119 seven seven eight seven eight four two 2556 02:01:42,030 --> 02:01:36,760 zero three lose weight and look great 2557 02:01:44,100 --> 02:01:42,040 with ASAP as slim as possible we'd like 2558 02:01:46,110 --> 02:01:44,110 to hear from you if you have a comment 2559 02:01:49,439 --> 02:01:46,120 or question about the para cash 2560 02:01:50,910 --> 02:01:49,449 sent it to news at the para caste calm 2561 02:01:53,850 --> 02:01:50,920 that's news 2562 02:01:55,800 --> 02:01:53,860 at the para caste calm and don't forget 2563 02:02:00,530 --> 02:01:55,810 to visit our famous para caste community 2564 02:02:03,540 --> 02:02:00,540 forums at forum dot the para caste calm 2565 02:02:05,640 --> 02:02:03,550 we have alan greenfield we're focusing 2566 02:02:09,180 --> 02:02:05,650 on the frontiers of reality where people 2567 02:02:11,760 --> 02:02:09,190 maybe find themselves in both realities 2568 02:02:13,260 --> 02:02:11,770 and it kinda really freaks him out and 2569 02:02:15,390 --> 02:02:13,270 that may have been part of what happened 2570 02:02:18,720 --> 02:02:15,400 to Richard shaver he believed in 2571 02:02:21,899 --> 02:02:18,730 physical caves here that you go into a 2572 02:02:23,939 --> 02:02:21,909 cave and it's real and maybe he did go 2573 02:02:26,850 --> 02:02:23,949 into real caves but those real caves may 2574 02:02:29,280 --> 02:02:26,860 have been elsewhere now I wanted to get 2575 02:02:30,570 --> 02:02:29,290 into more of the magical thing here 2576 02:02:32,280 --> 02:02:30,580 because we kind of touched on very 2577 02:02:34,680 --> 02:02:32,290 briefly because we have a couple of 2578 02:02:36,840 --> 02:02:34,690 questions about that and there's so much 2579 02:02:39,780 --> 02:02:36,850 to discuss we'll do the best we can we 2580 02:02:42,720 --> 02:02:39,790 have someone named Bona Ventura from our 2581 02:02:44,910 --> 02:02:42,730 forum and he says I'd greatly enjoyed 2582 02:02:47,189 --> 02:02:44,920 listening to mr. Greenfield on the para 2583 02:02:49,140 --> 02:02:47,199 cast over the years here are a couple of 2584 02:02:52,649 --> 02:02:49,150 questions for him he's a fan how about 2585 02:02:55,260 --> 02:02:52,659 that I love it okay can you discuss the 2586 02:02:57,780 --> 02:02:55,270 benefits of practicing ritual magic it 2587 02:03:00,360 --> 02:02:57,790 seems as so many occult practitioners 2588 02:03:02,640 --> 02:03:00,370 dr. D and Alastair Crowley for example 2589 02:03:05,220 --> 02:03:02,650 seem to have gained so little either 2590 02:03:07,770 --> 02:03:05,230 materially or intellectually from their 2591 02:03:10,110 --> 02:03:07,780 magical practice while others seem to 2592 02:03:12,810 --> 02:03:10,120 have been harmed by it have magicians 2593 02:03:14,700 --> 02:03:12,820 made any discoveries that have relevance 2594 02:03:17,310 --> 02:03:14,710 beyond their own experience in other 2595 02:03:20,580 --> 02:03:17,320 words are the occult forces if there are 2596 02:03:22,490 --> 02:03:20,590 such playing us for suckers mmm 2597 02:03:26,189 --> 02:03:22,500 interesting take on it 2598 02:03:28,680 --> 02:03:26,199 Aleister Crowley was a drug addict and 2599 02:03:31,530 --> 02:03:28,690 an egotist and I think that had more to 2600 02:03:35,280 --> 02:03:31,540 do with whatever results he got he also 2601 02:03:37,350 --> 02:03:35,290 I can relate to this and you can relate 2602 02:03:40,290 --> 02:03:37,360 it to the life of Jim Mosley he started 2603 02:03:43,500 --> 02:03:40,300 out with a substantial inheritance he 2604 02:03:46,320 --> 02:03:43,510 was raised in a very very fundamentalist 2605 02:03:49,680 --> 02:03:46,330 group called the Plymouth Brethren and I 2606 02:03:51,990 --> 02:03:49,690 think that those two factors were things 2607 02:03:55,320 --> 02:03:52,000 that he was he spent a lot of his life 2608 02:03:58,770 --> 02:03:55,330 running away from unsuccessfully with 2609 02:03:59,640 --> 02:03:58,780 drugs and with with sexual aspects of 2610 02:04:01,470 --> 02:03:59,650 magic which 2611 02:04:02,790 --> 02:04:01,480 is nothing wrong with theirs and for 2612 02:04:05,459 --> 02:04:02,800 that matter there's nothing wrong with 2613 02:04:08,399 --> 02:04:05,469 the judicious use of drugs the problem 2614 02:04:10,260 --> 02:04:08,409 is there's so much in judicious use he 2615 02:04:12,780 --> 02:04:10,270 was a heroin addict and died a heroin 2616 02:04:16,910 --> 02:04:12,790 addict I don't think the material 2617 02:04:19,919 --> 02:04:16,920 aspects of magic are particularly 2618 02:04:23,310 --> 02:04:19,929 important if it was then there would be 2619 02:04:25,470 --> 02:04:23,320 some some people who are doing the stock 2620 02:04:27,600 --> 02:04:25,480 market or the lottery who would 2621 02:04:30,180 --> 02:04:27,610 attribute their success to their 2622 02:04:32,370 --> 02:04:30,190 particular magical secrets and people 2623 02:04:36,270 --> 02:04:32,380 would be ting be beating a path to their 2624 02:04:39,090 --> 02:04:36,280 door I think what magic first of all 2625 02:04:41,580 --> 02:04:39,100 there's little enough interest in the 2626 02:04:45,930 --> 02:04:41,590 occult and magical community and 2627 02:04:48,840 --> 02:04:45,940 actually testing magical ritual for in 2628 02:04:52,729 --> 02:04:48,850 the same way that paranormal researchers 2629 02:04:56,729 --> 02:04:52,739 test for example ESP to determine what's 2630 02:05:00,660 --> 02:04:56,739 actually changing reality and what 2631 02:05:03,000 --> 02:05:00,670 actually is simply acting out or perhaps 2632 02:05:07,919 --> 02:05:03,010 performing a therapeutic ritual but 2633 02:05:10,080 --> 02:05:07,929 which has no other no other purpose I do 2634 02:05:12,930 --> 02:05:10,090 a great deal to correct that but my 2635 02:05:18,000 --> 02:05:12,940 feeling is that the primary purpose of 2636 02:05:20,459 --> 02:05:18,010 magical ritual is to open the portal of 2637 02:05:23,310 --> 02:05:20,469 the adept I that is to open the portal 2638 02:05:26,100 --> 02:05:23,320 to other realms of existence this is 2639 02:05:29,790 --> 02:05:26,110 particularly obvious in what's called 2640 02:05:31,500 --> 02:05:29,800 Enochian magic and I'll only briefly go 2641 02:05:34,050 --> 02:05:31,510 back to it because I have mentioned it 2642 02:05:36,870 --> 02:05:34,060 before on on your program I believe but 2643 02:05:39,689 --> 02:05:36,880 I believe that without really thinking 2644 02:05:43,439 --> 02:05:39,699 it through Albert K bender and his 2645 02:05:47,610 --> 02:05:43,449 experience with the with the K ik and 2646 02:05:52,020 --> 02:05:47,620 the men in black and his frightened 2647 02:05:54,660 --> 02:05:52,030 withdrawal from from ufology had to do 2648 02:05:58,560 --> 02:05:54,670 with the fact that he had essentially 2649 02:06:03,360 --> 02:05:58,570 set up his his room in his family's home 2650 02:06:06,720 --> 02:06:03,370 as a magical temple and had the kind of 2651 02:06:09,810 --> 02:06:06,730 dark aesthetics which in fact attracted 2652 02:06:11,820 --> 02:06:09,820 exactly what he got only he wasn't he 2653 02:06:12,240 --> 02:06:11,830 wasn't bargaining for it and when he got 2654 02:06:12,720 --> 02:06:12,250 it 2655 02:06:15,300 --> 02:06:12,730 he 2656 02:06:17,610 --> 02:06:15,310 also like shaver interpreter interpreted 2657 02:06:22,140 --> 02:06:17,620 it in physical terms and I think it was 2658 02:06:25,770 --> 02:06:22,150 more in the nature of a dark spiritual 2659 02:06:28,440 --> 02:06:25,780 experience with beings from other where 2660 02:06:31,979 --> 02:06:28,450 I think that that the purpose of a 2661 02:06:36,990 --> 02:06:31,989 controlled magical experiment is to be 2662 02:06:39,720 --> 02:06:37,000 able to successfully go and I know this 2663 02:06:43,590 --> 02:06:39,730 from experience successfully go from one 2664 02:06:46,020 --> 02:06:43,600 state of reality to another and if you 2665 02:06:49,860 --> 02:06:46,030 do it smart which is something I would 2666 02:06:52,979 --> 02:06:49,870 say that a lot of people who are magical 2667 02:06:56,070 --> 02:06:52,989 enthusiasts leap into without doing able 2668 02:06:59,190 --> 02:06:56,080 to return intact but with more wisdom 2669 02:07:01,620 --> 02:06:59,200 than one left with I've done this with 2670 02:07:05,190 --> 02:07:01,630 groups I've done this individually I've 2671 02:07:07,320 --> 02:07:05,200 done this over a period of of 30-some 2672 02:07:11,520 --> 02:07:07,330 odd years and I'm convinced that it 2673 02:07:14,030 --> 02:07:11,530 works it's an inexact science primarily 2674 02:07:16,770 --> 02:07:14,040 because no one has really really done 2675 02:07:19,680 --> 02:07:16,780 what I call scientific Illuminism which 2676 02:07:22,620 --> 02:07:19,690 is Crowley's term but which I have 2677 02:07:25,530 --> 02:07:22,630 borrowed for my own use which means the 2678 02:07:27,690 --> 02:07:25,540 aim of religion the method of science or 2679 02:07:31,530 --> 02:07:27,700 I would prefer the aim of spirituality 2680 02:07:34,110 --> 02:07:31,540 the method of science which is to say to 2681 02:07:36,990 --> 02:07:34,120 scientifically document what's going on 2682 02:07:41,160 --> 02:07:37,000 and what you do to achieve certain 2683 02:07:44,820 --> 02:07:41,170 results and how you begin indulge in 2684 02:07:47,940 --> 02:07:44,830 this transformation and how you get back 2685 02:07:51,240 --> 02:07:47,950 safely from it our perception of magic 2686 02:07:53,580 --> 02:07:51,250 these days is from silly TV shows like 2687 02:07:56,100 --> 02:07:53,590 once upon a time where all your fairy 2688 02:07:59,490 --> 02:07:56,110 tale characters come to life and they go 2689 02:08:02,460 --> 02:07:59,500 into a small town in America and they 2690 02:08:06,450 --> 02:08:02,470 bring their magical powers with them so 2691 02:08:08,460 --> 02:08:06,460 I'm going to segue that comment into 2692 02:08:11,130 --> 02:08:08,470 bond event or a second question which is 2693 02:08:15,120 --> 02:08:11,140 can you tell us why and how you went 2694 02:08:17,580 --> 02:08:15,130 about becoming a practicing magician now 2695 02:08:21,150 --> 02:08:17,590 now oh I thought you were going to 2696 02:08:26,220 --> 02:08:21,160 commercial no no no we got we have like 2697 02:08:32,070 --> 02:08:26,230 a minute a half it was all at the same 2698 02:08:34,190 --> 02:08:32,080 time Jean I didn't assistant Li realized 2699 02:08:38,729 --> 02:08:34,200 there were different aspects of the same 2700 02:08:42,150 --> 02:08:38,739 same community of subjects I became 2701 02:08:46,530 --> 02:08:42,160 interested in paranormal phenomena UFOs 2702 02:08:49,830 --> 02:08:46,540 and the occult and magical universe 2703 02:08:55,140 --> 02:08:49,840 including Kabul is Amanda Nokian work 2704 02:09:01,950 --> 02:08:55,150 and and other magical ritual all at the 2705 02:09:04,140 --> 02:09:01,960 same time in circa in 1960 and my 2706 02:09:06,120 --> 02:09:04,150 development in terms of practice and 2707 02:09:09,030 --> 02:09:06,130 working with other people on these 2708 02:09:11,160 --> 02:09:09,040 different areas depended in part on who 2709 02:09:14,270 --> 02:09:11,170 and science fiction also during that 2710 02:09:18,060 --> 02:09:14,280 same period by the way all the same year 2711 02:09:19,740 --> 02:09:18,070 I was joob essence the Freudians can 2712 02:09:22,440 --> 02:09:19,750 make of that if there are any Freudians 2713 02:09:25,290 --> 02:09:22,450 left whatever they wish the point is 2714 02:09:31,979 --> 02:09:25,300 that my major interest developed at that 2715 02:09:35,340 --> 02:09:31,989 same time and the magical aspect of it 2716 02:09:37,560 --> 02:09:35,350 was mostly reading about it in the 1960s 2717 02:09:40,140 --> 02:09:37,570 and then in the 1970s I began to meet 2718 02:09:42,979 --> 02:09:40,150 people who were also interested in it 2719 02:09:45,930 --> 02:09:42,989 and group work is I would say almost 2720 02:09:49,200 --> 02:09:45,940 essential for doing that sort of thing I 2721 02:09:53,640 --> 02:09:49,210 eventually became part of an organized 2722 02:09:56,630 --> 02:09:53,650 body of magical workers I spent 20 years 2723 02:09:58,560 --> 02:09:56,640 in that before deciding that the 2724 02:10:00,870 --> 02:09:58,570 authoritarian approach of the 2725 02:10:04,530 --> 02:10:00,880 organization was far far too dogmatic 2726 02:10:06,660 --> 02:10:04,540 for any real progress to be made but in 2727 02:10:08,250 --> 02:10:06,670 in the process of going along through 2728 02:10:11,550 --> 02:10:08,260 trial and error I learned a great deal 2729 02:10:13,950 --> 02:10:11,560 about magical invocation and Eve 2730 02:10:15,870 --> 02:10:13,960 occasion we're going to ask him more 2731 02:10:17,670 --> 02:10:15,880 about what he learned in our next 2732 02:10:28,280 --> 02:10:17,680 segment now in Greenfield joining me 2733 02:10:34,520 --> 02:10:31,370 are you tired of searching for great 2734 02:10:39,650 --> 02:10:34,530 talk radio more important search in 2735 02:10:42,170 --> 02:10:39,660 overall we are the GCM radio network hey 2736 02:10:43,790 --> 02:10:42,180 neighbors meetings are an essential part 2737 02:10:46,010 --> 02:10:43,800 of any business you know making 2738 02:10:47,960 --> 02:10:46,020 presentations to clients collaborating 2739 02:10:50,660 --> 02:10:47,970 with your colleagues will 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voice over IP are 2754 02:11:26,630 --> 02:11:23,850 included you know my listeners can try 2755 02:11:29,270 --> 02:11:26,640 goto meeting free for 30 days a month of 2756 02:11:31,760 --> 02:11:29,280 unlimited online meetings free visit 2757 02:11:34,210 --> 02:11:31,770 goto meeting.com click on the try it 2758 02:11:35,510 --> 02:11:34,220 free button and enter the promo code 2759 02:11:41,750 --> 02:11:35,520 podcast 2760 02:11:44,330 --> 02:11:41,760 food storage 2761 02:11:46,580 --> 02:11:44,340 check survival tools check weapons and 2762 02:11:48,500 --> 02:11:46,590 water filters check but what about a 2763 02:11:50,840 --> 02:11:48,510 permanent source of cooking power that 2764 02:11:52,940 --> 02:11:50,850 can run forever without buying fuel or 2765 02:11:54,740 --> 02:11:52,950 paying for maintenance introducing After 2766 02:11:56,750 --> 02:11:54,750 Burner stoves home of the original 2767 02:11:59,000 --> 02:11:56,760 patented rocket stove the Kelly Kettle 2768 02:12:01,820 --> 02:11:59,010 and the solo stove afterburner stoves 2769 02:12:03,470 --> 02:12:01,830 has what you need and now offers all GCN 2770 02:12:05,540 --> 02:12:03,480 listeners are complete preparedness 2771 02:12:08,150 --> 02:12:05,550 package with the means to cook meals and 2772 02:12:10,130 --> 02:12:08,160 sanitize water whether you dig in or bug 2773 02:12:12,200 --> 02:12:10,140 out cook almost any meal with just a 2774 02:12:14,600 --> 02:12:12,210 handful of sticks we already have the 2775 02:12:17,300 --> 02:12:14,610 lowest online prices guaranteed but if 2776 02:12:20,000 --> 02:12:17,310 you enter coupon code GCN at checkout 2777 02:12:22,130 --> 02:12:20,010 will knock off an additional 15% and 2778 02:12:24,080 --> 02:12:22,140 send you our amazing six our solar 2779 02:12:26,810 --> 02:12:24,090 rechargeable light bulb absolutely free 2780 02:12:29,360 --> 02:12:26,820 all for only 249 dollars visit 2781 02:12:32,210 --> 02:12:29,370 afterburner stoves calm or call eight 2782 02:12:34,880 --> 02:12:32,220 six six seven one six five two one four 2783 02:12:37,670 --> 02:12:34,890 eight six six seven one six five two one 2784 02:12:40,570 --> 02:12:37,680 four afterburner stoves calm 2785 02:12:42,740 --> 02:12:40,580 Neels with just a handful of sticks 2786 02:12:44,150 --> 02:12:42,750 attention this is an announcement for 2787 02:12:46,010 --> 02:12:44,160 our listeners who drive gasoline 2788 02:12:47,660 --> 02:12:46,020 vehicles federal consumer protection has 2789 02:12:49,640 --> 02:12:47,670 confirmed that there is now an 2790 02:12:52,010 --> 02:12:49,650 automotive accessory that exceeds its 2791 02:12:53,870 --> 02:12:52,020 own fuel saving claims consumer 2792 02:12:56,450 --> 02:12:53,880 protection has confirmed that most 2793 02:12:58,760 --> 02:12:56,460 gasoline vehicles will get 22% more 2794 02:13:01,430 --> 02:12:58,770 miles per gallon with an accessory 2795 02:13:03,890 --> 02:13:01,440 called platinum 22 to find out if 2796 02:13:05,180 --> 02:13:03,900 platinum 22 will give your vehicle 22 2797 02:13:08,270 --> 02:13:05,190 percent more miles per gallon 2798 02:13:11,660 --> 02:13:08,280 you should call 1-800 less gas you heard 2799 02:13:13,220 --> 02:13:11,670 me correctly 1-800 less gas you heard me 2800 02:13:15,770 --> 02:13:13,230 federal consumer protection has 2801 02:13:17,810 --> 02:13:15,780 confirmed that the Platinum 22 accessory 2802 02:13:20,630 --> 02:13:17,820 will deliver 22 percent more miles per 2803 02:13:23,060 --> 02:13:20,640 gallon to most gasoline vehicles you 2804 02:13:25,790 --> 02:13:23,070 should pick up the phone and call 1-800 2805 02:13:31,550 --> 02:13:25,800 less gas to find out if it will help 2806 02:13:35,720 --> 02:13:31,560 your vehicle that's 1-800 is das 1-800 l 2807 02:13:40,400 --> 02:13:35,730 ESS GA s 22 percent more miles per 2808 02:13:42,200 --> 02:13:40,410 gallon 1-800 less gas hi my name is 2809 02:13:45,170 --> 02:13:42,210 Annette and due to menopause symptoms 2810 02:13:46,640 --> 02:13:45,180 for nearly two years I suffered severe 2811 02:13:49,130 --> 02:13:46,650 hot flashes which prevented me from 2812 02:13:50,810 --> 02:13:49,140 sleeping all night it was so hard to 2813 02:13:52,850 --> 02:13:50,820 work because it continued all day to 2814 02:13:55,700 --> 02:13:52,860 have the hot flashes from how I was 2815 02:13:57,920 --> 02:13:55,710 exhausted and depleted after only three 2816 02:13:59,810 --> 02:13:57,930 weeks on one world weight I have no hot 2817 02:14:03,140 --> 02:13:59,820 flashes and I'm sleeping normally again 2818 02:14:04,640 --> 02:14:03,150 I feel energized and strong this is an 2819 02:14:06,320 --> 02:14:04,650 amazing product it is a little-known 2820 02:14:08,120 --> 02:14:06,330 fact that every single cell of your body 2821 02:14:10,970 --> 02:14:08,130 is supposed to produce 10% of its 2822 02:14:13,670 --> 02:14:10,980 protein content as glutathione but due 2823 02:14:15,290 --> 02:14:13,680 to toxicity and aging it does not could 2824 02:14:17,120 --> 02:14:15,300 glutathione be a missing factor in 2825 02:14:18,950 --> 02:14:17,130 optimal cell function for your entire 2826 02:14:20,390 --> 02:14:18,960 body if you restore the optimal 2827 02:14:22,310 --> 02:14:20,400 glutathione levels in your cells 2828 02:14:24,230 --> 02:14:22,320 especially your glands and organs then 2829 02:14:26,270 --> 02:14:24,240 as a result your glands and organs work 2830 02:14:28,220 --> 02:14:26,280 better imagine the quality of life 2831 02:14:29,870 --> 02:14:28,230 improvement you might have to order one 2832 02:14:31,820 --> 02:14:29,880 world way call eight eight eight nine 2833 02:14:35,510 --> 02:14:31,830 eight eight three three two five that's 2834 02:14:36,890 --> 02:14:35,520 8 8 8 9 8 8 3 3 to 5 or visit one world 2835 02:14:43,340 --> 02:14:36,900 wacom that's 2836 02:14:47,270 --> 02:14:43,350 world wh ey comm hi they can make poop 2837 02:14:49,189 --> 02:14:47,280 you're listening to the parrot job on 2838 02:14:51,649 --> 02:14:49,199 the power cast we have two more segments 2839 02:14:53,780 --> 02:14:51,659 with my friend Alain Greenfield and he 2840 02:14:56,570 --> 02:14:53,790 has such a wide range of interest is 2841 02:15:00,229 --> 02:14:56,580 just incredible now let's talk about the 2842 02:15:02,740 --> 02:15:00,239 practical things about magician and all 2843 02:15:05,780 --> 02:15:02,750 that the kind of things you can do now 2844 02:15:08,510 --> 02:15:05,790 we always think of casting spells do you 2845 02:15:11,380 --> 02:15:08,520 cast spells this is a dumb question do 2846 02:15:14,649 --> 02:15:11,390 you engage in meditations can you create 2847 02:15:17,240 --> 02:15:14,659 different effects because of your magic 2848 02:15:21,100 --> 02:15:17,250 yes yes and yes but the same would be 2849 02:15:23,090 --> 02:15:21,110 true of of paranormal work with 2850 02:15:24,680 --> 02:15:23,100 psychokinesis and I think they're 2851 02:15:28,459 --> 02:15:24,690 identical in other words if you're 2852 02:15:33,500 --> 02:15:28,469 changing something in what we mutually 2853 02:15:35,380 --> 02:15:33,510 hold to be reality through mental powers 2854 02:15:37,250 --> 02:15:35,390 you can call it magic or you can call it 2855 02:15:38,540 --> 02:15:37,260 psychokinesis it's just a matter of 2856 02:15:40,370 --> 02:15:38,550 where you're where you're coming from 2857 02:15:43,360 --> 02:15:40,380 that's the easy part 2858 02:15:46,610 --> 02:15:43,370 and the answer for me would be after 2859 02:15:50,720 --> 02:15:46,620 working in this area actively for forty 2860 02:15:54,530 --> 02:15:50,730 years and intellectually for 450 I do 2861 02:15:58,550 --> 02:15:54,540 very little of the you know Wizards hat 2862 02:16:00,590 --> 02:15:58,560 and wands and circles and stuff I I'm 2863 02:16:05,860 --> 02:16:00,600 all for that and I believe that's the 2864 02:16:09,290 --> 02:16:05,870 the starting place for for anyone but 2865 02:16:11,360 --> 02:16:09,300 gradually as you go through this you you 2866 02:16:15,320 --> 02:16:11,370 dispense with a lot of the paraphernalia 2867 02:16:18,950 --> 02:16:15,330 and are left with the being able to 2868 02:16:23,380 --> 02:16:18,960 basically do things by intent I try as 2869 02:16:26,060 --> 02:16:23,390 little as possible to interfere with 2870 02:16:29,000 --> 02:16:26,070 day-to-day reality for one thing I think 2871 02:16:31,160 --> 02:16:29,010 that it's very important to respect the 2872 02:16:33,770 --> 02:16:31,170 autonomy of the will of others and 2873 02:16:37,070 --> 02:16:33,780 something like for example one of the 2874 02:16:40,060 --> 02:16:37,080 most common things is love magic or sex 2875 02:16:42,830 --> 02:16:40,070 magic or whatever in in the sense of 2876 02:16:46,280 --> 02:16:42,840 trying to bend the will of someone else 2877 02:16:48,799 --> 02:16:46,290 to yours and to me that's black magic 2878 02:16:50,610 --> 02:16:48,809 it's a it's a violation of that person's 2879 02:16:52,820 --> 02:16:50,620 will by trying to bend 2880 02:16:55,740 --> 02:16:52,830 them to you through the use of 2881 02:16:58,260 --> 02:16:55,750 paranormal or magical forces I don't do 2882 02:17:00,450 --> 02:16:58,270 that the couple of times that I tried in 2883 02:17:02,669 --> 02:17:00,460 the early days of my work it always 2884 02:17:07,260 --> 02:17:02,679 worked but it was always a disaster 2885 02:17:09,629 --> 02:17:07,270 hence various relationships that we 2886 02:17:13,530 --> 02:17:09,639 don't really need to go into but it 2887 02:17:16,410 --> 02:17:13,540 works it's what I call low magic and it 2888 02:17:20,640 --> 02:17:16,420 also if it actually does Bend someone's 2889 02:17:26,930 --> 02:17:20,650 will it's black magic just as any other 2890 02:17:30,240 --> 02:17:26,940 form of persuasion without intellectual 2891 02:17:33,840 --> 02:17:30,250 engagement with that person would be 2892 02:17:36,419 --> 02:17:33,850 such I think in that sense Hitler was an 2893 02:17:38,310 --> 02:17:36,429 excellent black magician able to sway 2894 02:17:41,730 --> 02:17:38,320 people with the power of his voice and 2895 02:17:45,419 --> 02:17:41,740 the power of his mind whole masses of 2896 02:17:48,030 --> 02:17:45,429 people that's an awful awful power which 2897 02:17:50,700 --> 02:17:48,040 probably could have been used for 2898 02:17:52,800 --> 02:17:50,710 something else but which had the most 2899 02:17:55,230 --> 02:17:52,810 tragic of results including for him 2900 02:17:55,950 --> 02:17:55,240 which ultimately what goes around comes 2901 02:17:57,959 --> 02:17:55,960 around 2902 02:18:01,470 --> 02:17:57,969 that is does seem to be a law of the 2903 02:18:05,040 --> 02:18:01,480 universe I mostly am interested in 2904 02:18:07,500 --> 02:18:05,050 linking these areas together you want to 2905 02:18:11,400 --> 02:18:07,510 know about abductions how do you find 2906 02:18:13,050 --> 02:18:11,410 out about abductions you do an Enochian 2907 02:18:16,379 --> 02:18:13,060 working where you go into the 2908 02:18:20,990 --> 02:18:16,389 appropriate Enochian ether using the 2909 02:18:25,490 --> 02:18:21,000 traditional methods of dr. Dee who was a 2910 02:18:30,450 --> 02:18:25,500 consummate Elizabethan astrologer and 2911 02:18:33,270 --> 02:18:30,460 magician with a very dubious handyman 2912 02:18:35,640 --> 02:18:33,280 named Edward Kelly made off with his 2913 02:18:40,650 --> 02:18:35,650 wife eventually one of the perils of the 2914 02:18:43,020 --> 02:18:40,660 path and you in fact can have something 2915 02:18:45,780 --> 02:18:43,030 resembling a controlled abduction 2916 02:18:48,450 --> 02:18:45,790 experience maybe even rescue someone who 2917 02:18:51,180 --> 02:18:48,460 had a spontaneous abduction experience 2918 02:18:53,490 --> 02:18:51,190 or something that was sort of done from 2919 02:18:55,050 --> 02:18:53,500 the other side now the production being 2920 02:18:58,590 --> 02:18:55,060 what now goes every time we say 2921 02:18:58,980 --> 02:18:58,600 abductions UFOs I mean it exactly that 2922 02:19:01,530 --> 02:18:58,990 way 2923 02:19:04,259 --> 02:19:01,540 what are UFOs there unidentified they 2924 02:19:08,540 --> 02:19:04,269 are a source of abduction 2925 02:19:11,639 --> 02:19:08,550 but so can gnomes or fairies or 2926 02:19:14,129 --> 02:19:11,649 changelings or any of the folklore or 2927 02:19:18,000 --> 02:19:14,139 for that matter the profound religious 2928 02:19:22,649 --> 02:19:18,010 experiences the prophet Elijah being 2929 02:19:29,790 --> 02:19:22,659 taken to heaven on wings of angels or 2930 02:19:34,019 --> 02:19:29,800 thereabouts Paul on the road to Damascus 2931 02:19:36,719 --> 02:19:34,029 having his close encounter of the very 2932 02:19:39,929 --> 02:19:36,729 very very transformative type I don't 2933 02:19:43,189 --> 02:19:39,939 see these as different gene I see these 2934 02:19:46,709 --> 02:19:43,199 as all differing cultural 2935 02:19:49,849 --> 02:19:46,719 interpretations of the same basic 2936 02:19:53,779 --> 02:19:49,859 phenomenon and what I'm interested in is 2937 02:19:58,019 --> 02:19:53,789 linking them one to another but also 2938 02:20:01,590 --> 02:19:58,029 developing some means of control over 2939 02:20:03,630 --> 02:20:01,600 them and that's why I have worked at 2940 02:20:06,899 --> 02:20:03,640 something at some pains to work on the 2941 02:20:09,899 --> 02:20:06,909 prediction of say UFO cases in the 2942 02:20:14,010 --> 02:20:09,909 future with arguable success and that's 2943 02:20:18,779 --> 02:20:14,020 why I have also worked on using magical 2944 02:20:22,229 --> 02:20:18,789 process as it has been handed down to do 2945 02:20:25,740 --> 02:20:22,239 what amounts to going into the abductees 2946 02:20:29,130 --> 02:20:25,750 world and coming back from there 2947 02:20:32,309 --> 02:20:29,140 successfully now okay you raised a big 2948 02:20:34,469 --> 02:20:32,319 question here going into the abductees 2949 02:20:36,240 --> 02:20:34,479 world this is the UFO abductee or any 2950 02:20:39,599 --> 02:20:36,250 person being abducted by strange 2951 02:20:41,460 --> 02:20:39,609 creatures again I don't see them as 2952 02:20:44,460 --> 02:20:41,470 different they're only described in 2953 02:20:50,580 --> 02:20:44,470 different cultural terms whether it's 2954 02:20:53,340 --> 02:20:50,590 Barney Hill or or Saul of Tarsus it's 2955 02:20:55,170 --> 02:20:53,350 the same experience described by people 2956 02:20:57,750 --> 02:20:55,180 from different cultures and making 2957 02:21:01,920 --> 02:20:57,760 different cultural interpretations I see 2958 02:21:02,420 --> 02:21:01,930 them as one and the same thing okay go 2959 02:21:08,309 --> 02:21:02,430 on 2960 02:21:12,269 --> 02:21:08,319 well the the major use that I make of 2961 02:21:15,689 --> 02:21:12,279 magic now as opposed to the various 2962 02:21:18,140 --> 02:21:15,699 things that a beginner and journey 2963 02:21:20,960 --> 02:21:18,150 journeyman magicians 2964 02:21:23,990 --> 02:21:20,970 would do and properly serve because you 2965 02:21:25,790 --> 02:21:24,000 don't want to climb a mountain without 2966 02:21:29,270 --> 02:21:25,800 learning a lot about mountain climbing 2967 02:21:31,720 --> 02:21:29,280 because there are there are very 2968 02:21:37,011 --> 02:21:31,730 practical consequences of doing that is 2969 02:21:39,710 --> 02:21:37,021 to set up a set of circumstances not 2970 02:21:44,560 --> 02:21:39,720 unlike the uncontrolled one that bender 2971 02:21:50,810 --> 02:21:44,570 set up in his room for summoning or 2972 02:21:55,870 --> 02:21:50,820 transferring to some alternate reality 2973 02:22:00,620 --> 02:21:55,880 or some other brain Braa 2974 02:22:03,320 --> 02:22:00,630 being there observing and then returning 2975 02:22:05,630 --> 02:22:03,330 here preferably with a group of people 2976 02:22:08,060 --> 02:22:05,640 and preferably with instrumentation that 2977 02:22:10,910 --> 02:22:08,070 will document as much as can be 2978 02:22:12,680 --> 02:22:10,920 documented about that and I've been 2979 02:22:16,910 --> 02:22:12,690 doing that kind of work since the early 2980 02:22:20,120 --> 02:22:16,920 1990s with with a lot of success but 2981 02:22:23,410 --> 02:22:20,130 with you know no funding obviously at 2982 02:22:26,390 --> 02:22:23,420 all lately we've been doing a lot of of 2983 02:22:29,630 --> 02:22:26,400 talking about doing some experimentation 2984 02:22:31,790 --> 02:22:29,640 with augmenting the light spectrum that 2985 02:22:37,100 --> 02:22:31,800 we're able to work with in order to 2986 02:22:39,290 --> 02:22:37,110 perhaps perceive things that our regular 2987 02:22:42,380 --> 02:22:39,300 senses are not able to do specifically 2988 02:22:44,960 --> 02:22:42,390 with infrared it's now as I'm sure you 2989 02:22:46,790 --> 02:22:44,970 know being a fellow Gadgeteer and 2990 02:22:49,761 --> 02:22:46,800 actually much better at that sort of 2991 02:22:52,100 --> 02:22:49,771 thing than I am there are relatively 2992 02:22:55,700 --> 02:22:52,110 inexpensive movie cameras with 2993 02:23:00,710 --> 02:22:55,710 relatively high definition that that 2994 02:23:05,960 --> 02:23:00,720 will that use infrared in order to 2995 02:23:08,600 --> 02:23:05,970 perceive things in the infrared aspect 2996 02:23:10,490 --> 02:23:08,610 of the the light spectrum that we don't 2997 02:23:13,970 --> 02:23:10,500 normally see in other words in the heat 2998 02:23:16,610 --> 02:23:13,980 spectrum and heat has a lot to do with a 2999 02:23:18,410 --> 02:23:16,620 lot of the magical transformations that 3000 02:23:21,320 --> 02:23:18,420 take place 3001 02:23:24,710 --> 02:23:21,330 and I don't know how that will turn out 3002 02:23:27,950 --> 02:23:24,720 but if we are able to see a kind of heat 3003 02:23:32,899 --> 02:23:27,960 exchange that is otherwise not 3004 02:23:36,860 --> 02:23:32,909 perceivable to two people in an ordinary 3005 02:23:39,019 --> 02:23:36,870 state of mind and to ordinary vision or 3006 02:23:41,870 --> 02:23:39,029 even ordinary cameras that will be 3007 02:23:44,450 --> 02:23:41,880 significant and I have people that work 3008 02:23:45,830 --> 02:23:44,460 with me who are working on that and I 3009 02:23:48,740 --> 02:23:45,840 intend to do some work on that myself 3010 02:23:51,880 --> 02:23:48,750 when win and if I can afford it there 3011 02:23:54,950 --> 02:23:51,890 there needs to be a lot more scientific 3012 02:23:57,559 --> 02:23:54,960 that is systematic nailing down and 3013 02:24:00,830 --> 02:23:57,569 documentation of what we do all this 3014 02:24:03,110 --> 02:24:00,840 could be crazy but you know well all of 3015 02:24:05,570 --> 02:24:03,120 it can be wrong I'm not sure crazy is 3016 02:24:08,120 --> 02:24:05,580 the right term well we only have we have 3017 02:24:11,330 --> 02:24:08,130 one more segment left we'll go into more 3018 02:24:11,960 --> 02:24:11,340 of what our is doing with his magical 3019 02:24:15,410 --> 02:24:11,970 pursuits 3020 02:24:16,969 --> 02:24:15,420 this show is magical this week really 3021 02:24:18,800 --> 02:24:16,979 fascinating discussion with Allen 3022 02:24:28,390 --> 02:24:18,810 Greenfield I'm gene Steinberg during the 3023 02:24:35,180 --> 02:24:32,000 the gzn radio network providing the 3024 02:24:39,801 --> 02:24:35,190 world with hard-hitting talk radio G C 3025 02:24:41,870 --> 02:24:39,811 and great talk radio starts here don't 3026 02:24:44,180 --> 02:24:41,880 complain about your cable bill going up 3027 02:24:46,190 --> 02:24:44,190 and up and up do something about it 3028 02:24:49,580 --> 02:24:46,200 grab a pencil and jot down this special 3029 02:24:51,620 --> 02:24:49,590 number 187 seven feet zero for my TV the 3030 02:24:54,530 --> 02:24:51,630 more cable TV rates go up the better 3031 02:24:56,180 --> 02:24:54,540 digital satellite TV looks so disable 3032 02:24:58,970 --> 02:24:56,190 the cable and get more of your favorite 3033 02:24:59,660 --> 02:24:58,980 channels in 100% digital quality for 3034 02:25:01,460 --> 02:24:59,670 less money 3035 02:25:03,801 --> 02:25:01,470 call one eight seven seven eight zero 3036 02:25:06,200 --> 02:25:03,811 for my TV right now to sign up for 3037 02:25:08,210 --> 02:25:06,210 packages starting as low as $19.99 and 3038 02:25:10,310 --> 02:25:08,220 up to four rooms and there's no 3039 02:25:13,700 --> 02:25:10,320 equipment to buy that includes your free 3040 02:25:15,801 --> 02:25:13,710 HD TV upgrade your free DVR upgrade and 3041 02:25:17,900 --> 02:25:15,811 your free professional installation and 3042 02:25:19,640 --> 02:25:17,910 the best part the pristine digital 3043 02:25:22,310 --> 02:25:19,650 picture and sound call one eight seven 3044 02:25:23,180 --> 02:25:22,320 seven eight zero for my TV so what are 3045 02:25:24,950 --> 02:25:23,190 you waiting for 3046 02:25:28,160 --> 02:25:24,960 pull out your major credit or debit card 3047 02:25:30,200 --> 02:25:28,170 call 187 seven eight zero for my TV one 3048 02:25:32,600 --> 02:25:30,210 eight seven seven eight zero for my TV 3049 02:25:36,350 --> 02:25:32,610 disabled the cable cut costs and get 3050 02:25:39,950 --> 02:25:36,360 more call 27:17 zero for my TV one eight 3051 02:25:42,380 --> 02:25:39,960 seven seven eight zero for my TV so a 3052 02:25:44,720 --> 02:25:42,390 natural disaster strikes and out goes 3053 02:25:46,370 --> 02:25:44,730 your power you risk losing stored food 3054 02:25:49,250 --> 02:25:46,380 in electric freezers and refrigerators 3055 02:25:51,591 --> 02:25:49,260 your options lose all that expensive 3056 02:25:54,350 --> 02:25:51,601 food and medication fire up a noisy 3057 02:25:56,570 --> 02:25:54,360 gasoline-powered generator or switch now 3058 02:25:58,790 --> 02:25:56,580 to a propane or natural gas powered 3059 02:26:01,551 --> 02:25:58,800 refrigerator from Ben's discount supply 3060 02:26:03,410 --> 02:26:01,561 Ben's discount supply.com has a complete 3061 02:26:05,660 --> 02:26:03,420 line of propane powered refrigerators 3062 02:26:08,420 --> 02:26:05,670 freezers in sizes ranging from a small 3063 02:26:11,660 --> 02:26:08,430 camper cooler size up to a whopping 21 3064 02:26:14,030 --> 02:26:11,670 cubic foot refrigerator freezer or a 22 3065 02:26:16,160 --> 02:26:14,040 cubic foot deep freezer in stock and 3066 02:26:16,730 --> 02:26:16,170 ready to ship anywhere Ben's discount 3067 02:26:19,280 --> 02:26:16,740 supply.com 3068 02:26:21,380 --> 02:26:19,290 also stocks a full line of solar powered 3069 02:26:23,660 --> 02:26:21,390 appliances to get you completely off the 3070 02:26:25,940 --> 02:26:23,670 grid check out Ben's discount supply.com 3071 02:26:28,070 --> 02:26:25,950 or call eight hundred seven seven one 3072 02:26:30,080 --> 02:26:28,080 seven seven zero two that's eight 3073 02:26:32,720 --> 02:26:30,090 hundred seven seven one seven seven zero 3074 02:26:35,270 --> 02:26:32,730 two or click ben's discount supply.com 3075 02:26:39,770 --> 02:26:35,280 for camping home or bug out location 3076 02:26:42,840 --> 02:26:39,780 bank on ben's discount supply.com 3077 02:26:45,450 --> 02:26:42,850 do you owe the IRS money that you can't 3078 02:26:47,910 --> 02:26:45,460 pay our tax liens and levies ruining 3079 02:26:50,280 --> 02:26:47,920 your life are you tired of being afraid 3080 02:26:53,639 --> 02:26:50,290 just to go to the mailbox if this 3081 02:26:55,710 --> 02:26:53,649 describes you then Dan pillow can help 3082 02:26:57,690 --> 02:26:55,720 hi I'm Dan pillow and I've been solving 3083 02:26:59,310 --> 02:26:57,700 tax problems for more than 30 years in 3084 02:27:00,929 --> 02:26:59,320 fact I wrote the book that made it 3085 02:27:02,760 --> 02:27:00,939 possible to negotiate settlements with 3086 02:27:05,040 --> 02:27:02,770 the IRS and I've helped thousands of 3087 02:27:07,080 --> 02:27:05,050 people do exactly that call now at eight 3088 02:27:09,000 --> 02:27:07,090 hundred thirty four six six eight to 3089 02:27:10,590 --> 02:27:09,010 nine to learn how I can help you you 3090 02:27:12,240 --> 02:27:10,600 know your IRS debt will not go away by 3091 02:27:13,200 --> 02:27:12,250 itself but you don't have to live in 3092 02:27:15,030 --> 02:27:13,210 fear anymore 3093 02:27:16,860 --> 02:27:15,040 new changes to IRS policies will help 3094 02:27:18,599 --> 02:27:16,870 more people than ever before eliminate 3095 02:27:19,860 --> 02:27:18,609 their debts once and for all 3096 02:27:21,870 --> 02:27:19,870 there's no need for you to suffer 3097 02:27:23,910 --> 02:27:21,880 another day with IRS debt call eight 3098 02:27:25,889 --> 02:27:23,920 hundred three four six six eight twenty 3099 02:27:27,570 --> 02:27:25,899 nine I can help you eliminate wage and 3100 02:27:29,490 --> 02:27:27,580 Bank levies release tax liens and 3101 02:27:31,050 --> 02:27:29,500 negotiate a settlement the IRS that will 3102 02:27:31,679 --> 02:27:31,060 put your tax nightmare behind you 3103 02:27:35,010 --> 02:27:31,689 forever 3104 02:27:37,380 --> 02:27:35,020 call 834 no tax or go to my website tax 3105 02:27:41,910 --> 02:27:37,390 help online.com that's tax help 3106 02:27:44,190 --> 02:27:41,920 online.com a little over a year ago I 3107 02:27:46,080 --> 02:27:44,200 began to do a lot of research into why 3108 02:27:48,060 --> 02:27:46,090 even if I had a pretty good sized meal 3109 02:27:50,820 --> 02:27:48,070 that was still starving and my research 3110 02:27:52,770 --> 02:27:50,830 led me to a well known fact that most of 3111 02:27:54,150 --> 02:27:52,780 the soils that we grow our crops on here 3112 02:27:55,770 --> 02:27:54,160 in the United States and across the 3113 02:27:58,410 --> 02:27:55,780 industrialized world are almost 3114 02:28:01,020 --> 02:27:58,420 completely depleted of almost all of the 3115 02:28:03,450 --> 02:28:01,030 key minerals and trace elements that our 3116 02:28:05,460 --> 02:28:03,460 bodies need to rebuild themselves fight 3117 02:28:07,830 --> 02:28:05,470 off cancer and be healthy I then 3118 02:28:10,200 --> 02:28:07,840 searched out the best vitamin and 3119 02:28:12,630 --> 02:28:10,210 mineral company out there and discovered 3120 02:28:14,400 --> 02:28:12,640 youngevity the youngevity products are 3121 02:28:16,679 --> 02:28:14,410 designed to give you the real nutrition 3122 02:28:18,330 --> 02:28:16,689 you need and once you've got that you 3123 02:28:21,810 --> 02:28:18,340 don't have to eat as much to be 3124 02:28:24,360 --> 02:28:21,820 satisfied I've lost 37 pounds in two 3125 02:28:26,250 --> 02:28:24,370 months simply getting the vitamins and 3126 02:28:26,760 --> 02:28:26,260 minerals I need and check it out for 3127 02:28:29,160 --> 02:28:26,770 yourself 3128 02:28:31,719 --> 02:28:29,170 it's incredible go to Mpho wars team.com 3129 02:28:33,880 --> 02:28:31,729 today and order your first canister 3130 02:28:36,219 --> 02:28:33,890 beyond tangy tangerine complete 3131 02:28:40,630 --> 02:28:36,229 multivitamin mineral complex dietary 3132 02:28:42,939 --> 02:28:40,640 supplement that's Infowars team Tom hi 3133 02:28:46,330 --> 02:28:42,949 this is nuclear physicist collector Stan 3134 02:28:50,050 --> 02:28:46,340 Freeman you are listening to the pair 3135 02:28:56,739 --> 02:28:50,060 against the gold standard a paranormal 3136 02:28:59,739 --> 02:28:56,749 radio one more segment left we're 3137 02:29:03,700 --> 02:28:59,749 talking to Allen Greenfield a practicing 3138 02:29:06,279 --> 02:29:03,710 magician now this is always the stuff we 3139 02:29:09,639 --> 02:29:06,289 hear in the legends there is black magic 3140 02:29:12,670 --> 02:29:09,649 there's white magic you can do so all 3141 02:29:15,010 --> 02:29:12,680 sorts of strange things cast spells on 3142 02:29:18,189 --> 02:29:15,020 people to make things happen how much of 3143 02:29:21,219 --> 02:29:18,199 that is real all of it okay so what is 3144 02:29:25,000 --> 02:29:21,229 the extent of Y now in Greenfield can do 3145 02:29:27,399 --> 02:29:25,010 I mean if you decided well somebody's in 3146 02:29:28,689 --> 02:29:27,409 the severe difficulty they're going to 3147 02:29:32,050 --> 02:29:28,699 lose their home they're going to be 3148 02:29:35,979 --> 02:29:32,060 foreclosed can you put a spell on the 3149 02:29:41,290 --> 02:29:35,989 bank probably it depends on the size of 3150 02:29:43,779 --> 02:29:41,300 the institution if people buy myself the 3151 02:29:47,109 --> 02:29:43,789 larger the institution everything has 3152 02:29:51,069 --> 02:29:47,119 its own egregore which is a difficult 3153 02:29:56,200 --> 02:29:51,079 term look it up it's it's it's sort of 3154 02:29:57,429 --> 02:29:56,210 the composite force of of any person 3155 02:30:01,929 --> 02:29:57,439 place or thing 3156 02:30:04,540 --> 02:30:01,939 for example casting a spell which I am 3157 02:30:06,729 --> 02:30:04,550 NOT a spell caster and haven't been for 3158 02:30:10,330 --> 02:30:06,739 a very long time but casting a spell on 3159 02:30:13,179 --> 02:30:10,340 let's say the government to not go to 3160 02:30:17,050 --> 02:30:13,189 war the government has its own egregore 3161 02:30:19,689 --> 02:30:17,060 it's egregore goes back to the founding 3162 02:30:22,380 --> 02:30:19,699 of the country and in some sense beyond 3163 02:30:25,269 --> 02:30:22,390 that and plain what that means 3164 02:30:30,729 --> 02:30:25,279 what egregore means yes it just it just 3165 02:30:33,160 --> 02:30:30,739 means the the composite power of of the 3166 02:30:36,700 --> 02:30:33,170 person place or thing that you are 3167 02:30:38,859 --> 02:30:36,710 dealing with in order to it's a lot like 3168 02:30:43,251 --> 02:30:38,869 gaming I hate to say that but in order 3169 02:30:49,161 --> 02:30:43,261 to be able to to impose 3170 02:30:53,270 --> 02:30:49,171 a difference on that composite power one 3171 02:30:55,791 --> 02:30:53,280 must have more composite power or have 3172 02:30:58,821 --> 02:30:55,801 some little method of just shaving off 3173 02:31:01,220 --> 02:30:58,831 some little edge the classic example of 3174 02:31:04,161 --> 02:31:01,230 the goofiest thing ever done were the in 3175 02:31:07,511 --> 02:31:04,171 the height of the hippie peace movement 3176 02:31:11,810 --> 02:31:07,521 vietnam-era thing was the the effort 3177 02:31:14,751 --> 02:31:11,820 unsuccessful of course to levitate the 3178 02:31:17,781 --> 02:31:14,761 Pentagon it would take more than a few 3179 02:31:20,020 --> 02:31:17,791 thousand stoned hippies to levitate the 3180 02:31:22,571 --> 02:31:20,030 Pentagon in fact I think it's probably 3181 02:31:25,131 --> 02:31:22,581 impossible if you had the whole 3182 02:31:26,241 --> 02:31:25,141 population of the world concentrating on 3183 02:31:28,701 --> 02:31:26,251 it but to change 3184 02:31:30,861 --> 02:31:28,711 yeah the question would be then does the 3185 02:31:33,470 --> 02:31:30,871 government have its own magical powers 3186 02:31:35,600 --> 02:31:33,480 to protect itself from you well yes 3187 02:31:39,671 --> 02:31:35,610 obviously look at the back of the dollar 3188 02:31:42,501 --> 02:31:39,681 bill I mean it in its beginnings a 3189 02:31:44,841 --> 02:31:42,511 goodly portion of at least the 3190 02:31:47,961 --> 02:31:44,851 Federalists with that within the the 3191 02:31:50,171 --> 02:31:47,971 founding fathers as they say of the of 3192 02:31:54,611 --> 02:31:50,181 the United States were a good many 3193 02:31:57,261 --> 02:31:54,621 Masons and illuminated Masons and they 3194 02:32:00,890 --> 02:31:57,271 embodied a lot of that in the and the 3195 02:32:04,131 --> 02:32:00,900 symbolism of of the United States to 3196 02:32:06,171 --> 02:32:04,141 this day when you see a picture of the 3197 02:32:13,761 --> 02:32:06,181 House of Representatives you will 3198 02:32:15,441 --> 02:32:13,771 observe the the bound sticks around a I 3199 02:32:16,970 --> 02:32:15,451 don't want to use the actual word 3200 02:32:20,871 --> 02:32:16,980 because the word is associated with 3201 02:32:25,551 --> 02:32:20,881 fascism but it's it's a very very old 3202 02:32:27,411 --> 02:32:25,561 idea of you see a double bladed weapon 3203 02:32:30,560 --> 02:32:27,421 and you have these sticks bound around 3204 02:32:33,921 --> 02:32:30,570 it and it's a magical symbol for the 3205 02:32:38,781 --> 02:32:33,931 power of many bound together is much 3206 02:32:43,161 --> 02:32:38,791 stronger than the power of of anyone and 3207 02:32:45,560 --> 02:32:43,171 that's that symbol goes back to the to 3208 02:32:49,310 --> 02:32:45,570 the merging of thirteen colonies to the 3209 02:32:53,990 --> 02:32:49,320 to the emergence of all for one to the 3210 02:32:58,710 --> 02:32:54,000 notion of e pluribus unum 3211 02:33:01,261 --> 02:32:58,720 these ideas are basically ideas out of 3212 02:33:06,140 --> 02:33:01,271 the late 18th century radical 3213 02:33:08,520 --> 02:33:06,150 Freemasonry that had a much more radical 3214 02:33:11,761 --> 02:33:08,530 expression in the French Revolution but 3215 02:33:13,850 --> 02:33:11,771 which nevertheless profoundly influenced 3216 02:33:16,530 --> 02:33:13,860 the founding of the United States and 3217 02:33:18,870 --> 02:33:16,540 elements that continue to be there but 3218 02:33:22,470 --> 02:33:18,880 even even if there was no intention to 3219 02:33:25,640 --> 02:33:22,480 do that time itself being an institution 3220 02:33:27,990 --> 02:33:25,650 having a specific flag and a specific 3221 02:33:31,381 --> 02:33:28,000 Pledge of Allegiance and a specific 3222 02:33:35,240 --> 02:33:31,391 national anthem all these combine to 3223 02:33:40,051 --> 02:33:35,250 create an egregore a composite power 3224 02:33:42,900 --> 02:33:40,061 which is very strong and the the the 3225 02:33:45,570 --> 02:33:42,910 longer it lasts and the the deeper it is 3226 02:33:49,131 --> 02:33:45,580 the more difficult it is to do anything 3227 02:33:52,230 --> 02:33:49,141 by any solitary person or even 3228 02:33:54,570 --> 02:33:52,240 combination of persons to change that 3229 02:33:57,330 --> 02:33:54,580 overall thing the trick would be if one 3230 02:34:01,051 --> 02:33:57,340 were so inclined to change maybe one 3231 02:34:03,511 --> 02:34:01,061 person in a key position to avoid let's 3232 02:34:07,261 --> 02:34:03,521 say a nuclear war that would be a more 3233 02:34:09,780 --> 02:34:07,271 doable thing than to change the will of 3234 02:34:13,591 --> 02:34:09,790 the Congress to like do something about 3235 02:34:15,240 --> 02:34:13,601 this fiscal cliff you don't want to get 3236 02:34:17,280 --> 02:34:15,250 into that because that's gonna be a 3237 02:34:19,320 --> 02:34:17,290 story that's gonna exist I think till 3238 02:34:21,091 --> 02:34:19,330 after the first of the year and I am 3239 02:34:23,910 --> 02:34:21,101 making that prediction without any 3240 02:34:26,520 --> 02:34:23,920 ability at magic yes well you actually 3241 02:34:29,040 --> 02:34:26,530 do have more magic than you realize 3242 02:34:30,841 --> 02:34:29,050 brain tell I want to know more we don't 3243 02:34:32,670 --> 02:34:30,851 have much time left why don't you focus 3244 02:34:36,600 --> 02:34:32,680 on that for a couple of minutes how they 3245 02:34:39,060 --> 02:34:36,610 do the the influence of cyberspace is 3246 02:34:43,560 --> 02:34:39,070 something that if we were were sitting 3247 02:34:47,551 --> 02:34:43,570 in a four-set hotel room in 1965 and I 3248 02:34:52,890 --> 02:34:47,561 were to say look Jean in the far future 3249 02:34:55,770 --> 02:34:52,900 in the 21st century in the 12th year at 3250 02:34:58,200 --> 02:34:55,780 the very very end of the Mayan calendar 3251 02:35:00,690 --> 02:34:58,210 when the guy got tired and walked away 3252 02:35:03,030 --> 02:35:00,700 from his calendar you're going to be 3253 02:35:05,551 --> 02:35:03,040 reaching out not to your little mailing 3254 02:35:07,109 --> 02:35:05,561 list of people that you've mimeograph to 3255 02:35:09,869 --> 02:35:07,119 but to 3256 02:35:13,260 --> 02:35:09,879 thousands conceivably millions of people 3257 02:35:18,649 --> 02:35:13,270 over a really infinite period of time 3258 02:35:21,929 --> 02:35:18,659 through a network that is in a cloud of 3259 02:35:25,469 --> 02:35:21,939 electronics spread out all over the 3260 02:35:27,989 --> 02:35:25,479 world you would have thought me a little 3261 02:35:29,819 --> 02:35:27,999 more dafter than I actually am but of 3262 02:35:31,859 --> 02:35:29,829 course you know when it comes to Daft I 3263 02:35:34,709 --> 02:35:31,869 think you one of the senior people out 3264 02:35:38,010 --> 02:35:34,719 there actually I think so too but I'm 3265 02:35:40,349 --> 02:35:38,020 glad I agree with each other and so are 3266 02:35:43,109 --> 02:35:40,359 you the point is anything that's done in 3267 02:35:45,449 --> 02:35:43,119 cyberspace has its own magical effect it 3268 02:35:49,979 --> 02:35:45,459 just depends on whether you define magic 3269 02:35:51,689 --> 02:35:49,989 as something lowbrow as in the witch not 3270 02:35:53,760 --> 02:35:51,699 that that wasn't funny but you know 3271 02:35:55,859 --> 02:35:53,770 that's the I Dream of Jeannie and 3272 02:35:58,499 --> 02:35:55,869 bewitched are not what magic is all 3273 02:36:00,510 --> 02:35:58,509 about or something more profound and the 3274 02:36:04,829 --> 02:36:00,520 one thing I will give Aleister Crowley 3275 02:36:07,289 --> 02:36:04,839 was that his his book magic kind of puts 3276 02:36:11,300 --> 02:36:07,299 it on a scientific footing and if you 3277 02:36:16,279 --> 02:36:11,310 can deal with the turgid neo Victorian 3278 02:36:19,529 --> 02:36:16,289 way of writing it actually gives that a 3279 02:36:22,019 --> 02:36:19,539 rational foundation that you can deal 3280 02:36:25,109 --> 02:36:22,029 with the irrational in he also said 3281 02:36:27,300 --> 02:36:25,119 reason is a lie which I think when you 3282 02:36:29,849 --> 02:36:27,310 deal with magic you sort of have to put 3283 02:36:33,629 --> 02:36:29,859 your reason on a whole and just do it 3284 02:36:35,729 --> 02:36:33,639 but the answer to your question the 3285 02:36:37,019 --> 02:36:35,739 bottom line answer is there are certain 3286 02:36:39,359 --> 02:36:37,029 things I can do and through certain 3287 02:36:41,550 --> 02:36:39,369 things I can but I have laid hands on 3288 02:36:44,129 --> 02:36:41,560 people magically and cured them of 3289 02:36:48,779 --> 02:36:44,139 horrible diseases unfortunately I can't 3290 02:36:50,519 --> 02:36:48,789 do it for myself which you know and we 3291 02:36:52,739 --> 02:36:50,529 hope this won't happen but if you did 3292 02:36:54,479 --> 02:36:52,749 have a horrible disease someone would 3293 02:36:57,149 --> 02:36:54,489 have to put their hands on you 3294 02:36:58,739 --> 02:36:57,159 exactly I just don't have the capacity 3295 02:37:02,550 --> 02:36:58,749 to do it for myself or my immediate 3296 02:37:05,129 --> 02:37:02,560 family the best I can do is blessings in 3297 02:37:07,349 --> 02:37:05,139 prayer you know but then one thing that 3298 02:37:10,050 --> 02:37:07,359 I believe in is you know the power of 3299 02:37:12,919 --> 02:37:10,060 prayer is not the power of telling God 3300 02:37:16,169 --> 02:37:12,929 how to run the universe so I try not to 3301 02:37:19,169 --> 02:37:16,179 to fall into that trap what is the power 3302 02:37:20,860 --> 02:37:19,179 of prayer then to touch the infinite and 3303 02:37:23,080 --> 02:37:20,870 to have the infinite touch here 3304 02:37:24,700 --> 02:37:23,090 our alan my friend please tell our 3305 02:37:26,680 --> 02:37:24,710 listeners where they can find more the 3306 02:37:28,900 --> 02:37:26,690 things that you write about well my 3307 02:37:31,450 --> 02:37:28,910 current book the name of which will fool 3308 02:37:33,910 --> 02:37:31,460 you if you're not careful is Christ and 3309 02:37:36,880 --> 02:37:33,920 the master theory on and you can get 3310 02:37:40,120 --> 02:37:36,890 that at the usual places 3311 02:37:41,980 --> 02:37:40,130 and do support the Amazon workers who 3312 02:37:43,210 --> 02:37:41,990 are trying to get better working 3313 02:37:45,640 --> 02:37:43,220 conditions I will 3314 02:37:48,490 --> 02:37:45,650 editorially say that but Amazon does 3315 02:37:50,830 --> 02:37:48,500 does carry both the Kindle and trade 3316 02:37:52,480 --> 02:37:50,840 paperback edition of that and I would 3317 02:37:54,610 --> 02:37:52,490 appreciate people trying it out it's 3318 02:37:57,341 --> 02:37:54,620 something totally different for me and 3319 02:38:00,070 --> 02:37:57,351 totally different from what it seems to 3320 02:38:02,410 --> 02:38:00,080 be from the title and if you want to get 3321 02:38:04,900 --> 02:38:02,420 in touch with me or anything about me 3322 02:38:10,841 --> 02:38:04,910 the best way to do it is to google my 3323 02:38:13,480 --> 02:38:10,851 name it spelled al le n gr e en fi eld 3324 02:38:15,580 --> 02:38:13,490 I've been on the internet since before 3325 02:38:18,370 --> 02:38:15,590 it was the Internet in fact he's a 3326 02:38:19,660 --> 02:38:18,380 madman so he probably helped create the 3327 02:38:23,110 --> 02:38:19,670 internet were just kidding 3328 02:38:25,360 --> 02:38:23,120 now that was Al Gore ok sorry excuse me 3329 02:38:27,190 --> 02:38:25,370 by the way they can find us we're on 3330 02:38:30,610 --> 02:38:27,200 Twitter where we're known as the power 3331 02:38:32,680 --> 02:38:30,620 cast or go to the power cast calm to 3332 02:38:34,780 --> 02:38:32,690 find all the things we do and Chris 3333 02:38:37,930 --> 02:38:34,790 O'Brien by the way his website is our 3334 02:38:39,670 --> 02:38:37,940 strange planet calm he's got loads of 3335 02:38:42,400 --> 02:38:39,680 great articles on there our strange 3336 02:38:43,870 --> 02:38:42,410 planet calm alan greenfield thank you so 3337 02:38:46,270 --> 02:38:43,880 much for joining us this week on the 3338 02:38:55,780 --> 02:38:46,280 power cast it's been just like the old 3339 02:39:02,179 --> 02:38:59,300 the para cast featuring gene Steinberg 3340 02:39:05,140 --> 02:39:02,189 and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted 3341 02:39:08,900 --> 02:39:05,150 presentation of making the impossible